HorusMaster
New Member
Is Dark Lucius LV8's effect of negating effect monsters destroyed in battle contigent upon being summoned by the effect of LV6?
Will Level Up! work for this card as well?
Will Level Up! work for this card as well?
Dark Lucius LV8
- Thread starter HorusMaster
- Start date
It's totall dependant on the effect of Dark Lucius LV6 (which in turn will only get the effect from Dark Lucius LV4). And since the LV8 and LV 6 will only get the effects from the LV6 and LV4 respectively, any other way to bring the 6 or 8 on the field will result in them not getting any negation effects.
So Level Up!! will be totally useless if you're looking for the full effect of the card (though it can still bring the monster out).
So Level Up!! will be totally useless if you're looking for the full effect of the card (though it can still bring the monster out).
Yeah, Level Up! will NOT trigger the effect of Lucius LV8 effect. That's the price of being this card not being a nomi. Yeah, you have to do the annoyingly long way of bring this out. (IMO, Lucius got one of the slowest ways of leveling up with the exception of Silent Swordsman)
MightyDingo
New Member
I would be more tempted to play Lucius LV8 around Dark Ruler Ha Des. Get Lucius into the GY and Premature him once Dark Ruler is on the field. Gives you a 2450ATK and a 2800ATK, and both can negate.
The Lucius' do look very difficult to level up.
The Lucius' do look very difficult to level up.
What would happen if I have dark ruler and Dark Lucius lv6 on the field and i attack opponent's monster with dark lucius lv6 and negated its effect in battle due to dark ruler. Will I able to special summon lv 8?
Note that, lv 6 was not special summon by lv 4's effect.
Note that, lv 6 was not special summon by lv 4's effect.
MightyDingo
New Member
That is a bit of a loophole. Based upon the strict interpretation of the card text, I would say that this would be legal.
It doesn't specifically state that it has to use it's own effect. Wicked-Breaking Flamberge-Baou would work as well if this holds true. Not sure what how the rulings will come down on this, though.
HorusMaster
New Member
drzero7 said:
Looking back I have to disagree that Level Up cannot be used to bring Dark Lucius LV8 out. Level Up works for sending Horus LV6 to the graveyard WITHOUT destroying a monster to summon Horus LV8, so why wouldn't the same hold true for Lucius?
What I meant was, you CAN use Level Up on your Lucius LV6 to summon LV8. That's not the prob. The prob is, if you do that, Lucius LV8 will have no effect and will pretty much be a normal monster. For Lucius LV8 to gain it's effect of negate+remove, you have to summon it with LV6 effect. I mean, why bother getting Lucius LV8 if your not gunna use it's effect.
John Danker
Administrator
The following text in Dark Lucius LV6 certainly makes the Dark Ruler Ha Des / Dark Lucius LV6 combo questionable....
During your next Standby Phase after this card has negated your opponent's monster effect, by sending this card to the Graveyard, Special Summon 1 "Dark Lucius LV8" from your hand or Deck.
"This card" means the power of negation must come from Dark Lucius LV6? So does the power to negate come from Dark Ruler Ha Des through Dark Lucius? Dark Lucius if not special summoned via LV4 certainly can't negate on it's own....then you could argue that the power of negation came from LV4 to begin with on the converse side. <shrug> I'm sure we'll get a ruling eventually....but I'm doubting it will be with an explination.
During your next Standby Phase after this card has negated your opponent's monster effect, by sending this card to the Graveyard, Special Summon 1 "Dark Lucius LV8" from your hand or Deck.
"This card" means the power of negation must come from Dark Lucius LV6? So does the power to negate come from Dark Ruler Ha Des through Dark Lucius? Dark Lucius if not special summoned via LV4 certainly can't negate on it's own....then you could argue that the power of negation came from LV4 to begin with on the converse side. <shrug> I'm sure we'll get a ruling eventually....but I'm doubting it will be with an explination.
The negation is the effect of Lucius LV6 not LV4.
Have been Special Summoned by LV4 is a condition of this effect yes, but the effect is written on LV6.
In case of Dark Ruler, I think he doesnt give effects to anyone.
If the conditions are met he is the one who negates the effect of the monster which was destroyed by a Fiend-Type monster, not the Fiend-Type monster itself.
My question is if there are Dark Ruler and Lucius LV6 (summoned by LV4) both on the field when Lucius LV6 destroys a monster which one negates the effect? I hope the controller can choose.
Have been Special Summoned by LV4 is a condition of this effect yes, but the effect is written on LV6.
In case of Dark Ruler, I think he doesnt give effects to anyone.
If the conditions are met he is the one who negates the effect of the monster which was destroyed by a Fiend-Type monster, not the Fiend-Type monster itself.
My question is if there are Dark Ruler and Lucius LV6 (summoned by LV4) both on the field when Lucius LV6 destroys a monster which one negates the effect? I hope the controller can choose.
HorusMaster
New Member
blade146 said:
I TOTALLY disagree....based on the rulings for Horus LV8, Dark Lucius LV8 should be able to be brought out by the effect of Level Up and still maintain his effect of negating and removing from play. Horus LV8 can only be special summoned by the effect of Horus LV6 and yet it doesn't have to destroy a monster to summon LV8 with Level Up and maintain it's ability to negate S/M cards. I agree that with Dark Ruler on the field, if Lucius LV6 negates the effect, it's the controller of the card that should decide if it was the effect of LV6 or Dark Ruler.
John Danker
Administrator
Fury said:
Yes, the controller can choose, there is a similar ruling for Cross Counter vs Stone Statue of the Aztecs that will allow the turn player to determine who is actually negating the effect when it comes down to that.
The difference between Horus LV8 and Dark Lucius LV8's summoning though is in the card text. There is nothing in Hours LV8's text that links it's effect to how it was summoned as with the text of Dark Lucius LV8
Dark Lucius LV*
Text:
If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of "Dark Lucius LV6", your opponent's monsters that this card destroys by battle are removed from play, and their effects are negated.
Hours LV8
Text:
This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by the effect of "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6". While this card remains face-up on your side of the field, you can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them.
HorusMaster
New Member
John Danker said:
Level Up!
Text:Send 1 face-up monster on your side of the field that has "LV" in its card name to the Graveyard to activate this card. Special Summon the monster that is written in the card text of that monster from your hand or Deck, ignoring the Summoning conditions.
Yet, you say this card doesn't work for Lucius LV8. So, the ONLY way to summon Lucius LV8 and have it's effect is to START with LV4? Can't see the point. You say the text is different and that Horus LV8 can ONLY be special summoned by the effect of LV6. But LV6 states that only after destroying a monster and sending LV6 to the graveyard that LV8 can be summoned at the End Phase. So, unless LV6 destroys a monster, LV8 can't be special summoned with it's effect? How does Level Up work then?
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
Horusmaster its like this.
LV8 doesnt need LV6 to be summoned. It has no summoning restrictions except on his effect. You can tribute for it or whatever ya just wont get his effect
LV8s effect is restricted that the only way the effect can become "active" is if it was summoned via LV6 and only LV6. You can summon LV8 any way you want but you wont get his effect unless LV6s effect is used to summon him.
LV8 doesnt need LV6 to be summoned. It has no summoning restrictions except on his effect. You can tribute for it or whatever ya just wont get his effect
LV8s effect is restricted that the only way the effect can become "active" is if it was summoned via LV6 and only LV6. You can summon LV8 any way you want but you wont get his effect unless LV6s effect is used to summon him.
Level Up! can special summon Dark Lucius LV8.
But if you do that he wont have any effect.
Why? Because its effect is:
"If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of ''Dark Lucius LV6'' - then and only then - you get the negate effect.
If it is summoned by Level Up! then it wasnt summoned by the effect of LV6 which means it wont have the effect.
He is not a nomi like others, you can even Tribute Summon it with Double Coston(for example). But then he wont have any effect.
But if you do that he wont have any effect.
Why? Because its effect is:
"If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of ''Dark Lucius LV6'' - then and only then - you get the negate effect.
If it is summoned by Level Up! then it wasnt summoned by the effect of LV6 which means it wont have the effect.
He is not a nomi like others, you can even Tribute Summon it with Double Coston(for example). But then he wont have any effect.
HorusMaster
New Member
EmeraldDragon said:
WRONG!! How can you say that LV8 doesn't need LV6 to be summoned? You can't summon LV8 any other way without LV6. You can send Horus LV6 to the graveyard with Level Up and summon LV8 WITHOUT having to destroy a monster FIRST as is written in the text. If Level Up is not used, then LV8 CANNOT be special summoned otherwise without fulfillling the requirements set in the effect of LV6.
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
LV 8 does not say anywhere in its text that it cannot be summoned except by the effect of LV6. It simply says it only gets its effect if summoned via LV6s effect.
Dillie-O
Council of Heroes
Agreed, the only restrictions placed on Lucius for the leveling chain is whether or not they get the effect or not. Consider another fiendish favorite...
Dark Mimic LV3
Effect Monster
DARK / Fiend / 3 Stars
ATK: 1000 DEF: 1000
If this card is sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle, the controller of this card draws 1 card from his/her Deck. If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of "Dark Mimic LV1", he/she draws 2 cards instead.
I placed the bold to emphasize the point that Mimic LV 3 can be special summoned by Level Up! or by the normal means, but only if it was special summoned by the "leveling up effect" of Mimic LV1, does the player get to draw 2 cards instead of one.
Its the same type of scenario.
Dark Mimic LV3
Effect Monster
DARK / Fiend / 3 Stars
ATK: 1000 DEF: 1000
If this card is sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle, the controller of this card draws 1 card from his/her Deck. If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of "Dark Mimic LV1", he/she draws 2 cards instead.
I placed the bold to emphasize the point that Mimic LV 3 can be special summoned by Level Up! or by the normal means, but only if it was special summoned by the "leveling up effect" of Mimic LV1, does the player get to draw 2 cards instead of one.
Its the same type of scenario.