dark magician of chaos question

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woltarr

New Member
if DMOC has it sumon negated by solemm judgement he goes to grave or go to the RFG pile?

also

if torrential tribute is activated in response to the sumon of DMOC his opcional effct will activate as chain link1 or the timming will be lost?

thank you very much

woltarr
 
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chaos general said:
Exactly. So why would DMoC's effect activate then? Its the same case as with Sangan - You wouldnt get Sangan's effect, so you wouldnt get your DMoC taken out of play either.
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Because it's not about whether it goes from the field or hand.

In order for these effect to work, the "card" is required to be a "monster" face-up and resolved to the field first, or the effect doesn't work.
 
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Hes probably considered to be in the hand. There's nothing on the ruling for Solemn Judgment on any of that, but as DJ said, there can't be a limbo zone. Of course, maybe there is one, but UDE never told us about it. We'll see what reply Densetsu gets on the list.
 
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It's on the field, it just hasn't become a monster yet.

There is no "limbo zone" but there always have been little mysteries surrounding summoning from hand, and certain effects.

Things that i dont believe will ever get properly explained.
 
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woltarr said:
it is not in the hand either

see rules soleem judgement versus eletric snake

maybe he is in the "limbo" between hand and field?

woltarr
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The Solemn Judgment rules for Electric Snake are erroneous. As I've already stated, the ruling says that you won't get it's effect because it is not destroyed in the hand, which is interesting because Electric Snake says it has to be discarded to gain its effect.

This is not off topic. Think about this ruling for a minute. In order to show that Solemn Judgment does not destroy a card in the hand they used a card effect that you wouldn't get even if it was destroyed in the hand anyway? It's just wrong. Why is it that this is the only ruling that says this? No other ruling alludes to a monster as being destroyed on the field. This ruling was clearly not thought out before it was written and is, to coin a phrase, "apples to oranges". ;)

I disagree with the notion that a monster must first resolve into a monster before its considered one. Thats seems unnessecarily complicated. A summon resolves, but not a monster. Therfore if a monster's summon has not succesfully rewsolved its not considered on the field. Then we have to decide where the monster was if it was destroyed before resolving. For all there fault I dont think Konami would succumb to the notion that an unsuccesful summon exists in a transtate or that a monster is something else before its summon resolves. Each of those present too many problems.
 
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woltarr said:
how about the "limbo zone" that exists in the effct of Cyber Jar?

UDe says that once you "pick" cards , they are not in the hands neither in the field

woltarr
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Cyber Jar creates a sitation where you reveal the first 5 cards of your deck. Revealing is not a "Limbo Zone" its an action. An action that is not considered a Draw. Just like there is a distinction between "sending a card to the graveyard", "tributing" and "destroying." One might even consider that the Summons are occuring directly from the deck. But thats speculation on my part. Needless to say its not a Phantom Zone for picked up cards.
 
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I disagree with the notion that a monster must first resolve into a monster before its considered one. Thats seems unnessecarily complicated. A summon resolves, but not a monster. Therfore if a monster's summon has not succesfully rewsolved its not considered on the field. Then we have to decide where the monster was if it was destroyed before resolving. For all there fault I dont think Konami would succumb to the notion that an unsuccesful summon exists in a transtate or that a monster is something else before its summon resolves. Each of those present too many problems.
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Well in other games, such as Vs. for example, a character card is just that, a character card until it resolves into a "character" object. No in play effect is generated from it, until it resolves as a "character" object.

Seems to work just fine for them, as well as others, and doesn't seem over complicated at all.
 
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Ok back to DMOC timing issue. Lets say he is special summonded by the effect of Dimension Fusion. Am I correct in assuming that if he is the first monster brought out he misses his timing, becuase the other monsters resolve last, but if he is the last monster brought out he gets his effect?would an easy way to negate his effect be to chain something to his hitting the field... like scape goat?
 
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densetsu_x said:
Different animal. By the time you Divine Wrath Dark Magician of Chaos, it's firmly established that its summon is successful and would be removed from play.
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Mmm Did you really read. I mean, I just ask this:
"What hapend if I negate the effect of Dark Magician of Chaos to remove it self from play, whit Divine Wrath. Does Divine Wrath negates the effect and sends it to the Graveyard?"
So I need to explain my question. Dark Magician of Chaos have 3 effects
1. When this card is Normal Summoned or Special Summoned successfully, you can add 1 Spell Card from your Graveyard to your hand.
2. A monster that is destroyed by this monster as a result of battle is removed from play instead of going to the Graveyard.
3. When this card is destroyed or removed from the field, it is removed from play.
Yes that's something we all know.
But, I do realise that my question have nothing to do with this thread, I mean the discussion here is something about solemn judgement, and that. So forget about solemn judgement, just pay attention this time.
To the Third effect. If I destroy my opponent's DMOC, it will be removed from play. And there's the Question.
Divine Wrath have a ruling that states

"¢ You can activate the effect of "Divine Wrath" against an effect monster's effect that happens anywhere: on the field, in the hand, in the Graveyard, or removed from play.

So I can chain it to the effect of DMOC, (right?) But what happened in this case. Does the Third Effect of DMOC it's negated and it goes to the graveyard, or what?
 
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The only effect of Dark Magician of Chaos that you can chain Divine Wrath to is the first one what when it's successfully Summoned, you can get a Spell Card from the Graveyard. The other effects do not use the chain and as such are not Wrathable. That is why you received the answer you did and why next time you would probably be better served creating a new thread for this rather than go completely off-topic since the discussion was over the initial summoning.
 
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I don't know if anyone's still arguing about the "Dark Magician of Chaos" vs. "Solemn Judgment" issue, but I just want everyone to know that "Dark Magician of Chaos" never technically hits the field if "Solemn Judgment" negates its summoning, so it will not be removed from play.

I know this sounds unofficial coming from someone with about two posts, but I run the rulings forum on a different site.

And to Netwt, you can't chain "Divine Wrath" to "Dark Magician of Chaos"'s third effect, as it's considered a Continuous effect.

Until Upper Deck says otherwise, I'm correct.
 
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The problem is that everyone doesn't agree on where DMoC is when he is destroyed. I personally believe he is in the hand. But others are looking at the mechanical viewpoint of a summon as something more detailed. The concept that the monster must resolve into a monster before he is considered to be on the field is one idea being tossed around.
 
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