Des Wombat VS Ceasefire

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KTW's effect activates during the same timing that Torrential Tribute and such would activate. Since it's brought to the field at that time, the effect activates after Cyber Jar's resolution (not during) in that "response to summon" timing.

This is vastly different from flipping a continuous monster face up by Ceasefire. Those effects cannot activate until the current effect resolves. That is why if Jinzo is flipped face up, you still take the damage from Ceasefire (the trap negating won't activate until after the damage is taken) and why Des Wombat won't stop it either (damage prevention won't activate until after the damage is taken).
 
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novastar said:
All Continuous Trap Card's require activation, and that always uses the chain.

But those that have Manually Activated effects or Triggers, require a seperate chain (afterwords) to be activated and resolve in.
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Trigger-effects (from Trap Cards) don't have to wait.

You flip Fairy Box in response to an attack you get to flip a coin when it resolves; you don't wait to start a second chain, nor until another attack is declared.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Trigger-effects (from Trap Cards) don't have to wait.

You flip Fairy Box in response to an attack you get to flip a coin when it resolves; you don't wait to start a second chain, nor until another attack is declared.
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Yes they do.

Same as Ordeal of the Traveller. You have to resolve the card into play first (during one chain) before the effect can Trigger (in a different chain). Unfortunately, the rulings don't outline what exactly happens, but if these "effects" trigger based on attack timing then you cannot do what you say.

In your example you would activate the "cards" during the Attack Response Chain and their effects would be avaliable to use in a new chain afterwords. Which of course you wouldn't be able to do because the attack timing is no longer present.

If those Triggers require attack timing, then you would have to have these cards face-up and active before the attack is declared.

To the original point, in 99% of the cases (lets leave 1% for anomalies even though i know there are none), you cannot have a manual or triggered effect from a Spell/Trap Card activate during the same chain the card itself was activated in. That includes Fairy Box.
 
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Perhaps it's best to state it this way...

During the resolution of a chain, a continuous effect cannot activate until that chain has resolved. Once the chain has resolved, any cards that have a continuous effect then become active and will remain active.

So to relate it to the original question...

Ceasefire flips up a face-down Des Wombat. Ceasefire resolves inflicting the necessary damage. Des Wombat will now prevent any further damage per his effect.


Seems rather cut and dry to me.
 
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Jathro said:
Perhaps it's best to state it this way...

During the resolution of a chain, a continuous effect cannot activate until that chain has resolved. Once the chain has resolved, any cards that have a continuous effect then become active and will remain active.
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Not "after the chain resolves" it's "after the current effect resolves"

Say for example Ceasefire was not Chain Link 1, and flipped Des Wombat mid-chain.

[Chain Link 1] Ring of Destruction (target -> any face-up monster)
[Chain Link 2] Ceasefire

resolve...

[Chain Link 2] Ceasefire
- Des Wombat is flipped face-up (does not become active yet)
- Ceasefire calculates and inflicts damage
- Ceasefire is fully resolved

*At this point Des Wombat's effect becomes active

[Chain Link 1] Ring of Destruction
- Destroys the target monster
- Ring deals the full ATK to both players
- Since Des Wombat is active at this point, it's controller recieves 0 damage from Ring

Hope that helps
 
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Yeah, you got me there. But your part about "after the current effect resolves is still valid and says it best.

Hopefully that clears up the confusion from this thread. Excellent example, Novastar.
 
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babyarm said:
Well, but Jinzo's effect doesn't become active until Ceasefire is resolving, so it can't negate the effect of Ceasefire. However, Des Wombat doesn't reduce damage to 0 until after the effect resolves, so it would seem that Des Wombat would reduce the damage to 0.
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Lets look at the card text of Des Wombat:
"As long as this card remains face-up on the field, any damage by a card effect to the controller of this card becomes 0."

As was stated before, Continuous effects must wait till they are face up between CARDS in a chain. What we have here is a 2-stage effect (Ceasefire) flipping Des Wombat up on the first stage, then dealing damage in the second. Both the flipping of Des Wombat and the infliction of damage are the effect of a single card (again, Ceasefire) therefore Des Wombat can't stop the damage in this case. Des Wombat will NORMALLY reduce an effect damage to it's controller to 0, but not if it isn't technically on the field at the time -- this is the same reason Judgment of Anubis will deal damage if you pick the opponent's lone Des Wombat for the second of three parts of its effect.

In the case of Ceasefire vs (face down) Des Wombat, Des Wombat isn't on the field yet for the purposes of damage negation.

In the other case, Des Wombat isn't physically on the field to negate the damage -- it is already in the Graveyard. To put it in the phraseology of Kaiba's duel computer while he is testing Obelisk:

"Ceasefire. Special Effect 1: Flip all face down monsters face up without activating any Flip effects. Special Effect 2: For every Effect monster on the field, your opponent takes 500 LP damage." "Judgment of Anubis. Special Effect 1: Negate the activation by your opponent of a Spell Card that destroys 1 or more of your own Spell or Trap cards on the field and destroy it. Special Effect 2: You may destroy one monster on your opponents field. If you do not, this effect ends. Special Effect 3: If you chose to destroy one of your opponents monsters is SE2, inflict damage to your opponent's Life Points equal to the ATK of the destroyed monster at the time it was destroyed."
 
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