Desert Sunlight activation conditions

S

SoilentG

CoG iTrader
There appear to be no activation conditions on Desert Sunlight... here's its text:

Desert Sunlight
Normal Trap
All monsters on your side of the field are changed to face-up Defense Position.


and it's only ruling:

• If you have a face-up Flip Effect monster, you can activate "Desert Sunlight", and chain "Book of Moon", another "Desert Sunlight", and another "Book of Moon". When the chain resolves, you will flip the monster down, then up, then down, then back up. The Flip Effect activates twice, and they wait to create a new chain after the current one resolves. For example, if the Flip Effect monster is "Morphing Jar", its effect will activate twice in a chain, as Chain Link 1 and Chain Link 2, they resolve in reverse order, and both players will discard and draw 5 cards, then discard and draw 5 cards again.

so, it appears that you can activate Desert Sunlight even if there are no face-down monsters on your side of the field. Is that correct?
 
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I would err on the side of caution in this case, and say that you would have to have at least one eligible monster at the time the effect resolves. Kind of like the conditions for activating Ceasefire.
 
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what I'm asking is can you activate it when there are no face-down monsters on your side of the field. it appears that you can... not sure what you're saying on having to have one eligible monster when it resolves... you won't know that until it resolves... the question is in the activation requirements.
 
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That's what I mean. The reason I said "when it resolves" is I was taking into account the Desert Sunlight ruling, which seems to indicate that Book of Moon knows that Morphing Jar is going to be face-down when it gets its turn on the chain, even though, it's targeting a face-up monster. Something you couldn't do ordinarily.

All I meant to imply was that when you activate Desert Sunlight, there should be every indication that there's going to be a monster to flip face-down when the effect resolves. Again, erring on the side of caution.
 
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When you activate a card effect, you must assume that it will work if no effects are chained to it to change the field somehow before it resolves (even if you intend to chain to it yourself). In other words, activation conditions.

Effects can certainly end up not being able to do anything upon resolution (the effect disappears/"flzzles" in that case), but you've never been able to activate a card that would do nothing in the event that it would then immediately resolve (i.e. no chaining to it).

So I say you cannot activate Desert Sunlight if the only monsters you control are face-up Defence Position monsters (you guys are forgetting about face-up Attack Position monsters, by the way).

The ruling only makes sense because the target monster is face-up at the start. It's always possible to flip it face-down with Book of Moon, which is why you can activate several of them. You can certainly chain two identical cards with the same target (e.g. Raigeki Break), even if one might cause the other to "fizzle" if/when it can't resolve properly. However, in the example there are intermediary steps called Desert Sunlight, which ensures the combo works as intended during resolution. The only point about activating all these cards is whether their activation conditions are met ("Is it a face-up monster that can be flipped face-down?"/"Is there a monster you control that can be switched to face-up Defence Position?").

I'd say the ruling is old and not complete, since it does not mention the illegality of activating a card that would have no effect (in the event that nothing else was chained to it, i.e. Desert Sunlight).
 
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Digital Jedi said:
The thing that will always stand out about that ruling though, is the fact that Book of Moon is targeting a face-up monster.
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It really won't. Remember what Book of Moon actually does?

Book of Moon
Quick-Play Spell
Flip 1 face-up monster on the field into face-down Defense Position.
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It's working exactly how it's supposed to be working. The weird part of the ruling is how it implies you can activate Desert Sunlight even if it would do nothing (ignoring its own activation conditions, in other words).
 
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The part you're missing Maruno is the ruling doesn't specify the battle position of the monster!!! It says "face-up" and doesn't specify in attack or defense position. So although very logical explanation on your part, and even a good point on the ruling being incomplete but there is no proof of that... so currently I think I can activate Desert Sunlight if I have only face-up monster(s) on the field. Where's Simon?
 
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Face-up, yes....as long as they are not all defense position, which, I believe was Maruno's final thought (correct me if I'm wrong there Maruno). It's just that one could (incorrectly) infer that you could do it if only F/U Defense were on the field, but that would be activating a card you knew could not do anything. No, activate only if you have at least one F/D (ATK* or DEF position) or F/U ATK position Monster currently on the field.

*Yes, I said it......"Darkness Approaches" (the Bane of Grand Mole).
 
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well good points all... yeah, I guess it's in the heart of what you just said DLoC... that if you know a card you're activating won't do anything you can't activate it.
 
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SoilentG said:
well good points all... yeah, I guess it's in the heart of what you just said DLoC... that if you know a card you're activating won't do anything you can't activate it.
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Didn't I say that first? I'm sure I did. Perhaps I thought it was too smegging obvious to explicitly point it out. :p To clarify (again)...

Assume the case where the only monsters you control are face-up Defence Position monsters. The ruling implies you can activate Desert Sunlight, even though it would do nothing. That's the case I was talking about. But we all know you can't activate a card that would do nothing.

The ruling for Desert Sunlight is misleading. If the only monsters you control are face-up Defence Position monsters, you cannot activate Desert Sunlight. End of story.
 
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yes you did say that at the beginning but I got all focused on the details of the face-up stuff you posted. thanks for the help. I wish the ruling was written more clearly.
 
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