Dimension Magic VS DMoC

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magnumcyclonex

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Would Dark Magician of Chaos "miss his timing" when he is special summoned via Dimension Magic? I'm thinking no (i.e. his optional effect of retrieving a magic card will work), because he is special summoned by a card, and not in the middle of a chain, but then, there is the "destroy 1 monster" part after the special summon, so some clarification would be nice.
 
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magnumcyclonex said:
Would Dark Magician of Chaos "miss his timing" when he is special summoned via Dimension Magic? I'm thinking no (i.e. his optional effect of retrieving a magic card will work), because he is special summoned by a card, and not in the middle of a chain, but then, there is the "destroy 1 monster" part after the special summon, so some clarification would be nice.
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Dimension Magic
Quickplay Spell

Effect: This card can only be activated when you have a Spellcaster type monster on the field. Select one monster and offer it as a tribute. Then, you may Special Summon one Spellcaster type monster from your hand.


If Dimension Magic is the last card in the chain that resolves and brings out Dark Magician of Chaos, then Dark Magician of Chaos would get his effect.
 
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Actually, the text of Magical Dimension reads:

"You may only activate this card while there is a face-up Spellcaster-Type monster(s) on your side of the field. Tribute 1 monster on your side of the field and Special Summon 1 Spellcaster-Type monster from your hand. Then you can destroy 1 monster on the field."

Dark Paladin on Pojo had it wrong, Duelmaster. ;)

I would say that if you choose to destroy a monster, Dark Magician of Chaos would miss his timing. If not, he wouldn't.
 
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Well hard to tell since this ruling involves two optional effects.

How I see it is like this.

Magical Dimension Special Summons Dark Magician of Chaos onto the field. It can't activate in the middle of a card resolving nor in between chain links. Since Magical Dimension is resolving and you choose to destroy a monster with the last part of its effect; Dark Magician of Chaos activates and attempts to resolve.

Since the Chain Block Dark Magician of Chaos is in contains just Magical Dimension, I don't see any other chain links. This is just how I see it from a mechanical point of view.
 
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I'd certainly agree with that.
Missing the Timing: If "Dark Magician of Chaos" is Special Summoned in the middle of a chain (if it is not the last effect in the chain to resolve), the timing will not be correct for its Optional Trigger Effect, so you do NOT return a Spell Card from your Graveyard to your hand.
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When they say effect they do so since it could be a monster effect that started the chain, not that it must be the last component of a card's resolution to occur, as remember that from a gameplay point of view all parts of a card's resolution are considered simultaneous unless otherwise stated.
So substitute the word "Card" for the word "effect" in the above ruling to see how it applies here.
 
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I share the opinion of Chaos General on this one. If you choose to summon Dark Magician of Chaos with the effect of "Magical Dimension" then it depends on whether you choose to activate the 2nd effect of "Magical Dimension" and destroy a monster on the field. I see it going like this...

- If you choose to destroy a monster after DMoC is Special Summoned thanks to "Magical Dimension," DMoC will not be able to active his effect. He missed the timing since the last event to happen was a monster being destroyed.

- If you do NOT choose to destroy a monster after DMoC is Special Summoned, his summoning was the last event to occur and therefore you could choose to activate his 2nd effect and return a Spell card to your hand.
 
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The only issue I have is the fact that it is NOT a chain block. "Dark Magician of Chaos" is being summoned by the effect of 1 card and his effect should/will activate after that card has resolved. It shouldn't matter what else that card does.

Take "Monster Gate" for instance. The last thing that happens with "Monster Gate" is a card (or cards) being sent to the Graveyard. But "Dark Magician of Chaos" doesn't miss his timing when he is Special Summoned by that card's effect.

Just my thoughts.
 
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That's a good point. A very good point, actually.

I'm interested to see how this works out, seeing as how "Magical Dimension" is a Quick-Play spell card, is it not?
 
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skey23 said:
The only issue I have is the fact that it is NOT a chain block. "Dark Magician of Chaos" is being summoned by the effect of 1 card and his effect should/will activate after that card has resolved. It shouldn't matter what else that card does.

Take "Monster Gate" for instance. The last thing that happens with "Monster Gate" is a card (or cards) being sent to the Graveyard. But "Dark Magician of Chaos" doesn't miss his timing when he is Special Summoned by that card's effect.

Just my thoughts.
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Monster Gate is a great card to reference for this. The only difference being 1 little word in Magical Dimension, that word is "THEN". Where Monster Gate is summoning a monster and sending the other cards picked up to the grave, Magical Dimension is quite clearly and distinctly saying perform step 1, and then perform step 2 next. This is where it gets sticky for optional effects. Graceful Charity will allow you to use Peten the Dark Clown but Card Destruction will not, because the trigger needs to be the last thing that is happening before you can activate the optional effect. We may get a ruling to the contrary but if it is consistent with other card rulings we have received you won't get DMOC's effect if summoned by Magical Dimension.
 
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Oooh..debate!..debate!...lol....

"Monster Gate" - (begin)"Tribute 1 monster on your side of the field.(stop at period)
(begin)Pick up cards from your Deck until you pick up a monster that can be Normal Summoned, and Special Summon it.(stop at period)
(begin)Send any other cards picked up to the Graveyard.(end)"

"Magical Dimension" - (begin)"You can only activate this card while there is a face-up Spellcaster-Type monster(s) on your side of the field.(stop at period)
(begin)Tribute 1 monster on your side of the field and Special Summon 1 Spellcaster-Type monster from your hand.(stop at period)
(begin)Then you can destroy 1 monster on the field.(end)"

It doesn't say "and send any cards to the Graveyard", it has a period, THEN it says "send any other cards...". That, to me, clearly separates the two actions.
 
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Yet if it were truly two actions then it would not allow for the proper activation window for DMOC. It could be possible for this to be yet another mistake UDE made regarding DMOC that just wasn't caught. But if they are 2 seperate distinct actions then DMOC should not be allowed to activate when summoned by Monster Gate either.

I'm not claiming to be the master of templating that Nova is but I think other optional effect rulings have definitely born out the truth of anything happening after the trigger definitely negates the possibility of activating the optional effect. And I think "Then you can destroy 1 monster on the field." leaves no possibility except that something else has occurred after the summon of the spellcaster.
 
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he would miss his timing.

becuase its summon, then Choose weather or not you want to destroy a creature.

since the game is asking you if you wish to destroy the window to use DMOC is missed.

he would miss his timing If the destroy came first and then the summon then you could do DMoc since the last thing to do is summon dmoc and then the game will ask if you wish to activate a ignition effect.

in this case. it summons and since the card isnt done yet it will ask you if you want to use the "Destroy one monster"

:) Monster game is incorrect if it lets you do it, becuase if the sendin is seperate from the summon then again DMOC would miss his tming.
 
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http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=8053
This is a question of Magical Dimension v.s. Dark Magician of Chaos.

Player A has "Apprentice Magician" on the field in attack position.
Player B has "Labyrinth Wall" on the field in face-down defence
position.
Player A activates "Magical Dimension", tributing "Apprentice Magician"
for "Dark Magician of Chaos."

Will "Magical Dimension"'s second effect cause "Dark Magician of Chaos"
to miss the timing for its spell retrieval effect?

If it does not, will "Dark Magician of Chaos" be able to select
"Magical Dimension" as the spell card it wishes to return to the player's
hand?

Magical Dimension: [Quick Play Spell] "You can only activate this card
while there is a face-up Spellcaster-Type monster(s) on your side of
the field. Tribute 1 monster on your side of the field and Special
Summon 1 Spellcaster-Type monster from your hand. Then you can destroy 1
monnster on the field."

Thank you in advance,

Ryan Fisher
Level 1 Judge

-----

Answer:

Destroying a monster with "Magical Dimension"'s effect is optional.

If you destroy a monster, "Dark Magician of Chaos"'s effect misses the
timing.

If you do not destroy a monster, "Dark Magician of Chaos"'s effect does
not miss the timing. In this case, "Magical Dimension" is a legal
target for "Dark Magician of Chaos"'s effect. This is because "Magical
Dimension" is in the Graveyard by the time "Dark Magician of Chaos"'s
effect activates.

******************************
Steve Okegawa
UDE Netrepâ„¢ Rules Coordinator
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG
steve.netrep@gmail.com
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I wonder if the answer is the same as the JERP rulings. I suppose the "missing the timing" always applies to whether the desired effect is the very last event to occur, regardless of the number of cards involved.

Well, at any rate, this makes DMOC very playable, especially during the battle phase where no loss of cards can occur under ideal circumstances.
 
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Im assuming thats how itll stand till something comes along to mess it all up.

Cause seriously, If the card is asking if you wish to destroy then im asuming that you would un intentionally miss your timing.


just look at King Tiger Wanghu, Even though the monster summoned isnt a 1400 or under itll still mess it all up for all the Speed 1 ignition effects.
 
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