double duels

Knut

Knut

New Member
Hi,

I've been playing these double matches a lot and there's one kid who keeps complaining about Raigeki. He's in a team with my brother, and I'm in the other team with a friend. Now suppose he activates Raigeki, what happens? I think he should choose one of us, whose monsters then will be destroyed. He says that all our monsters are destroyed because the card says: "destroy all your opponents monsters". He uses the same reasoning for Mirror Force.

What do you think?

Does anyone know if there are any (official) rulings for double duels?
 
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If I'm not mistaken, there aren't any official rules for multi-player duels for Yugioh.

I can tell you that the multi-player duels I play in, if an effect states all monsters, or all of your opponent's monsters, then it does indeed include all of them. So, if "Raigeki" or "Mirror Force" is played, then all monsters affected would be destroyed, no matter how many opponents you had.

That's not an official answer by any means, that's just how I/we play it here.
 
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So far as I know, no official rules for double duels exist. So it's up to the players to agree before hand on how such things will play out. If the two sides of the argument are adamant, then perhaps compromise is in order. If there are two different things being argued about, I'd say let him have his way on one thing and you get your way on the other.

If it was me, I'd think Raigeki would really destroy ALL of the opposing monsters of both team members. And United We Stand would count ALL monsters on you and your team-mates field. But that's just me.

<EDIT: Skey has just earned a spot in my sig>
 
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Correcto, there are no official rulings for double duels, I play similar to skey as well.

We state <here> that field is field regardless of whose monsters are they :)
 
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Everyone is correct, there are no official rules for tag team matches. I do have a set of unofficial rules though. These were produced from a person associated with UDE. If someone would like these, PM me with your email address and I will send them. I am not computer savvy enough to know how to post them hear for all to see. These are the same rules we use when Pastimes Events puts on this type of side event at certain regionals and Shonen Jumps.
 
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Well here are the UNOFFICIAL rules someone posted here before, a long, long time ago, in this very galaxy :D (the Innovation Gaming crew were using them for their tournaments AFAIK):


SIDE EVENTS

TAG TEAM TOURNAMENT:

Price: $10 per team
Prizes: 1 box to first place team, more depending on turnout

RULES:

General Guidelines:

- Each team consists of 2 (two) players.
- Each team starts with 12,000 LP. Teammates share this LP. This way, it isn't possible for one team to knock out one of their opponents and then gang up on the remaining player.
- Each player has his/her own playing field, graveyard, hand deck and fusion deck, which is separate from his/her teammate's.
- Teammates are not allowed to show their respective hands to one another.
- Teams take turns in clockwise fashion (one player from the first team plays, followed by a player from the second team, followed by the second player of the first team, and finally the second player of the second team).
- Players are seated with each opponent to their immediate right and left. Play proceeds in a clockwise order.
- A team wins when their opponents run out of LP, when one or both of their opponents decks-out, or when one or both of the members complete(s) a special victory condition ( for example: Exodia / Destiny Board / Final Countdown).

In-Depth Instructions:

I. Turn Order
(For simplicity, assume the teams are Team A (players A1, A2) and Team B (players B1, B2))

- Decide which team goes first by using any Appropriate method (die "“ coin "“ rock paper scissors).
- The starting team decides which player goes first (Assume A2 goes first).
- A2 starts. He/she cannot attack on this turn.
- B2 starts. He/she can only attack Player A2.
- A1 starts. He/she can only attack Player B2.
- B1 starts. He/she can attack either member of Team A.
- Direct damage effects such as [Ookazi] CAN be activated during this first turn period


II. Attacking

- A player is allowed to attack either of the opponents' monsters.
- If one opponent has no monsters while his/her partner has some, you may not attack the opponent without monsters.
- If both opponents have no monsters on their respective fields, you are allowed to directly attack either of them. You might think that it doesn't make a difference whom you attack since they share their LP, but it does matter when your monster has some sort of an effect (i.e. using Don Zaloog to randomly discard 1 card in your opponent's hand).
- You may not use your monsters to "˜block' for your partner's monster.


III. Spells and Traps:

Generally:
- Spells/traps that can't be used on yourself in the regular singles game cannot be used on your partner in the tag duel. This usually revolves around cards the specify your opponent or his/her monsters. (example: you can't use Change of Heart on your partner's monsters)
- Spells/traps that affect only your opponent in the singles game can only be used on one opponent in the tag duel format. (Cards like Confiscation target only one opponent)
- Some spells/traps can only be used on yourself and not your partner. (Example: Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity cannot be used to make your partner draw cards instead of you)
- Spells/traps that affect both you and your opponent in the singles game also affect all the players in the tag format. (Example: Heavy Storm affect all the players)
- You can use your traps to protect your teammate. (Example: Using your Mirror Force when your opponent attack your partner is ok, but only the opponent that declared attack will have his/her monsters destroyed; his/her partner will not be affected)
-You may activate Mystical Space Typhoon, Ring of Destruction, Exiled Force, etc., and target your partner
These were the general guidelines regarding spell and trap usage in this format. However, there are many specific rulings that don't fit here. Whenever possible, try to match between the actual card rulings and these guidelines.


IV. Costs and Tributing:

- Since LP is shared, paying LP costs for cards like Imperial Order proceeds normally.
- Under no circumstances can you tribute you partner's monsters in place of your own, be it for a card cost or a tribute summon/set.
- Of course, if you revive your partner's monster to your side of the field using Monster Reborn, it will be considered your monster and you can tribute it if you need to.

V. Priority and Chaining:
There is an order in which players may activate effects. The other team gets a chance to chain to an effect before a player's partner or the player himself or herself may chain. The opponent directly to the left of the player gets first chance to chain to an effect. For example, Player B1 is to Player A1's left and Player B2 is to Player A1's right. Player A1 activates Pot of Greed. Player B1 gets the first opportunity to chain. If Player B1 passes, then Player B2 gets a chance to chain. If Player B2 passes, then team B has passed and Player A2 gets a chance to chain. If Player A2 passes then Player A1 may chain to the initial effect or let it resolve.
If Player B1 had chained to A1's effect, then Player A2 would get first opportunity to chain to that effect since A2 is directly to Player B1's left.

VI. Deck Building:
Teammates are allowed (and encouraged) to construct their decks together to ensure they are compatible, and that they backup each other. However, make sure that each of your decks abides by the Advanced Format. In addition, even though you might know each other's decks by heart, you are still not allowed to show your hands to each other during the match. You will have to rely on intuition, skill, and luck in order to complement your teammate's playing style and eventually, win the match.

Specific card errata
- Ceasefire affects all players
- Cyber Jar affects all players
- Fiber affects all players
- Big Burn affects all players
- Card Destruction affects all players
- Cards like Gravity Bind, Level Limit Area B and Messenger of Peace affect the entire field.
- Swords of Revealing Light's turn count counts both opponents turns, and it protects both team members. For example player A1 activates Swords, Both Player A1 and A2 are safe, Player B1 would be turn 1 for Swords, Player B2 would be the turn 2 while Player B1 would be the third turn. At the end of that turn, Swords of Revealing Light will go to the Graveyard as normal.
-You may discard Kuriboh to save your partner
-You may not remove monsters from your partners Graveyard to summon Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End, Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning, Dark Necrofear and other special summons that include the removal of graveyard monsters.
-You can use Monster Reborn to Special Summon a monster from your partners Graveyard, but you may not use Premature Burial, Call of the Haunted, The Shallow Grave, or Rope of Life on a monster from your partner's Graveyard.
-Final Countdown counts both teams as 1 Turn each and when 20 turns is reached, it is a Team win. Example: Players A1 activates Final Countdown. Players B1 has a turn. Player A2 has a turn. At player A2's End Phase, 1 turn is counted. Player B2 has a turn. At the end of player B2's End Phase, the turn count increases to 2.
-Exodia is an Instant Team win
-Final/Destiny Board is an Instant Team Win
-Fenrir only effects the Player whose monster was destroyed. His/Her partner may still draw.
-Painful Choice: The owner of Painful Choice Chooses 5 monsters in his/her deck, the opponent to his or her left will pick the card for him or her to keep.
-Last Turn: The owner of the card, would be activating the effect of the card on the turn of the player he would battle against. For Example Player A1 has Blue eyes on the Field and Activates it on Player B1's turn he would have to Battle Player B1, not player B2. If at the end of the turn Player B1 does not have a monster, but Player B2 does then the duel ends in a Draw while either Player A1 or Player A2 has a monster on the field.
-If 2(two) members of a team have between them a complete Exodia the Forbidden One (Player A1 has Right Arm and Left leg, and player A2 has the rest of Exodia) the game is not over. One player must have a Full set of Exodia in his/her hand for a wictory by Exodia to be declared.
-If Player A1 attacks with Hayabusa Knight against Player B1's only monster and destroys it, Player A1 may not attack B1 directly if Player B2 has a monster on his or her field.
- Wall of Revealing Light will be limited to an 8000 Life Point payment.
- Limiter Removal will only affect the monsters of the controller of Limiter Removal
- You may NOT special/fusion summon a monster from your partner's fusion deck.
- Tornado Wall will protect both players from battle damage overflow as the entire field is affected by Umi and there are shared lifepoints.
- The controller of Ominous Fortune Telling can only choose the next turn player to use its effect on.
- Monsters like Hoshiningen that increase the ATK or DEF of all monsters of a particular type have their effects of increasing ATK and DEF halved.
- Monsters like Goblin King that increase their own ATK based on the number of a particular type of monster have their ATK boosts from their own effect halved.
- Berserk Dragon will only count the End Phases of the player who controls Berserk Dragon and the opponent to the right of that player.

BOOSTER DRAFTS

Price: $15
Packs: 4 to draft
Prizes:

First Place: 5 SOD boosters
More depending on turnout
 
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Since there really are no Official Rules governing Double or Tag Team Dueling, I think it is just better to create your own set of rules since no matter what or how you do it, there is never going to be a consistency because nothing IS Official, so there is no way to challenge a ruling for anything that is not already a "Basic Rule".

Can you remove monsters from your Team Member's hand for Ritual Monsters? Can you use Delinquent Duo to remove a card from each opponent instead of just one player?

Its easy to say No, but you are only basing it on 1 on 1 game-play, as there are no references other than something else that is unofficial.

The more you try to base your rules off 1-on-1, the more it just becomes 4 players playing against each other as several 1-on-1 Duels.
 
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Double Duels are fun while you see them on TV, with Yugi and Kaba but when in reality they flat out hurt your head. There are too many ruling loopholes you can make and enough nonsense to back it up. I seen double duels go badly when a team complains about who takes the damage for Ring of Destruction, everyone or just the person using it and the person they target for the effect.
 
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I sent a copy of the rules we use for Pastimes events and the local store I judge at to Dillie-O. He is going to post them. We found them very simple to use and explain. They do differ from some of the rules in the post before. As an example:
- Ceasefire affects all players
- Cyber Jar affects all players

Cyber Jars text is this - FLIP: Destroy all monsters on the field. Both players then pick up 5 cards from the top of their respective Decks and Special Summon all Level 4 or lower Monster Cards among them on the field in face-up Attack Position or face-down Defense Position. The rest of the cards picked up are added to their respective hands.

Our rules would be all(four players) monsters on the field would be destroyed. Then the word "both" indicates a player from each team(selected by the controller of Cyber Jar) would pick up 5 cards....

Ceasefire's text says - Flip all face-down Defense Position monsters on the field face-up. Flip Effects are not activated at this time. Inflict 500 points of damage to your opponent's Life Points for each Effect Monster on the field.

Our rules would be all(four players) face-down defense position monsters on the field would be flipped face-up. The word opponent's indicates one opponent(since it is singular in context) would then take damage(selected by controller of Ceasefire.

These are just a couple of examples but this method eliminates alot of the ruling problems. We are doing nothing more than we do now by looking at key words in the card's printed text. After Dillie-O gets the rules posted, if anyone has any questions about them, I would be more than happy to answer them.
 
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It actually makes a lot of problems. Example: if just one of the two 'partners' has a monster on the field after the flip... the other can be attacked directly and won't like that
 
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There are other rules on the sheet that I sent Dillie-O, such as team defending and stipulations that have to be met to do so. By doing things this way it creates more strategy. Teammates work together. One of the big themes I saw in our tournaments was burn decks with Final Countdown. Final Countdown counts each players turn as one. Teammates could also let each other use their priority slot to activate a spell or trap card if it was set. Once Dillie-O gets these posted it will make alot more since.
 
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Wow, I didn't think there would be this many replies. This will help in my future double duels (let's call them dd s).

I think the main question in a dd is: what is "your opponent"? If you state "your opponent" as the other team then cards like Raigeki, Mirror Force and Swords of Revealing Light will affect the whole team. If you state "your opponent" as one person then these cards would be used on one person. If you ask me, I think that is the most logical thing to do. Look at it like this. If Mirror Force would also affect the not attacking player, all his monsters in attack position will be destroyed while the player wasn't even in battle phase. That makes no sense to me. Even though it is not an condition for Mirror Force to be activated. SoRL also gets a weird effect, normally it would last three rounds (a round being that everyone had one turn). If it would be used on both players it would last 1.5 turns, I think that's just too strange. It should be used on just one player. Raigeki is a difficult card, it's not like a better version of Dark Hole. Raigeki doesn't say: destroy all monsters on the field except yours. That would mean it would also destroy your partner's monsters.
Hmmm.... I just checked the text on Raigeki. This is what it says: "Destroy all monsters on your opponent's side of the field." Well, the opponent's side of the field is the side of the whole opposing team I guess. So that would mean all the monsters of your opponents's side of the field would be destroyed. The same goes for Mirror Force: "Destroy all Attack Position monsters on your opponent's side of the field.", but still, the other player isn't in battle phase.
SoRL says: "Flip all face-down monsters on your opponent's side of the field face-up. This card remains face-up on the field for 3 of your opponent's turns. As long as this card remains face-up on the field, your opponent cannot declare an attack." So it would mean all the monsters on your opponents's side of the field will be flipped face-up, but that only one of the players can't attack for three turns.
This is getting really difficult.

I think I'm going to wait for the rules Dillie-O is going to post.
 
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You think that's bad, try figuring up the damage for "Ceasefire"!

Do you count the total number of effect monsters and EVERYBODY takes that much damage? Which could kill everybody but you!

Or do you do damage on a person by person basis? Meaning, if you are in a 4-way duel, that the damage inflicted would change for each person if they all had a different number of effect monsters on the field.

That's fun!...lol.
 
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That's why UnOfficial Rules are only confusing to follow because you are not bound to follow them.

Why should I have to take damage from Ceasefire? Where does it say I should?

If you want a guidline, then the posted rules are fine to use to template your own. If you dont want to make your own rules, then you can choose to follow them.

Otherwise, they are unenforceable as there is nothing to "back up" anything as far as Double Team Rulings.
 
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Well if you are going to make up your own rules just make sure to be consistant in terms of how you rule similar cards and try lay them out beforehand so you can carry out any negotiating over them before you start, when everyone will be at their most impartial.
 
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ChaosEmperor12 said:
what about 3-Way Duels????
i play those alot....
3-way free for all
Click to expand...
I've never understood the concept behind that at all. Consider this scenario:

<No players have any monsters on the field (say Dark Hole's been activated) but it is not the first turn>

1. P1 Draws, and summons Gemini Elf

2. P2 Draws and summons Berserk Gorilla, attacking and destroying Gemini Elf.

3. P3 Draws and summons Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer, attacking P1 directly.

You can see how this is not exactly a fair duel by any stretch of the imagination. Regardless of any rules laid out, two players will inevitably team up against the third to put him out early, then go after each other for the win. I've never found those duels any fun at all, and I doubt any set of rules could eliminate the inherent flaws. IMHO.
 
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daivahataka said:
Well if you are going to make up your own rules just make sure to be consistant in terms of how you rule similar cards and try lay them out beforehand so you can carry out any negotiating over them before you start, when everyone will be at their most impartial.
Click to expand...
Im only saying that, someone will see those rules that are posted, and even though it says it's Unofficial, they will still say that they should be followed.

Okay, now there is another site that has posted rules for Double Team Dueling. And they have totally contrasting rules. Which one is more accurate?

Neither.

And its mainly because there are no rules for Double Team Duels, so there will always be an argument unless EVERYONE comes to a consensus on a Standard for Unofficial Double Duels.
 
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