Element Dragon effect triggering question

BobDoily

BobDoily

New Member
Okay here's the scenario. I have Element Dragon on my side of the Field along with a Mask Dragon. My opponent has a monster (doesn't matter which one as long as it is not a WIND, but for the fun of it we'll say Skull Servant). I use Creature Swap to give my opponent Mask Dragon. I attack the Mask Dragon with Element Dragon. Using Mask Dragon I search out a Dragon with 1500 or less ATK, BUT that is a WIND attribute. I'm just wondering if Element Dragon's effect would then activate allowing a second consecutive attack. Or if that effect would have required a WIND type on the field during the damage step before Mask Dragon goes to the Grave.

Thanks.
 
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With all of the element monsters, as soon as another creature on the field that would normally activate an effect for the element creature is removed, that effect is also removed. So even if you attacked and destroyed your opponents WIND monster (being the only WIND on the field), Element Dragon would then lose the ability to attack again because there is not another wind monster on the field.
 
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I thought the Special Summons of the new monster was still during the Damage Step of that monster's Attack. So his attack would not be over with until the new monster hits the field. So before the next battle starts he would have the WIND monster on the field to perform his second attack.
 
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He's got a good point. The ruling is:
If there is only 1 WIND monster on the field, and you attack and destroy it with "Element Dragon", you cannot attack again because there is no longer a WIND monster on the field so "Element Dragon" no longer has that ability.

That suggests that the continuous effect would go into play immediately, so why can't he attack a second time if a wind creature was special summoned? The battle is not over.
 
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This also raises another interesting question. If you have a monster/equipment ability that can attack twice in the same battle phase (such as due to twin swords) do you have to do it right after each other, or could you space them apart and attack with a different monster inbetween? Not sure why you'd do that... Twin swords just says you can attack twice in the same battle phase. It doesn't say you have to do it right after the first attack with it. Element Dragon says it has to be consecutive (can attack once again in a row.)
 
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I belive you have to attack consecutivly in the case of equips like Twin Swords or Matazza. As far as I know the only multi-attack effect that can split it's attacks up is the effect of Armed Samurai - Ben Kai.
 
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I knew of the killing of the only wind monster. Hmm, this is bugging me. I think it doesn't because wouldn't the conditions of destroying be met before Mask Dragon hits the Graveyard? Which in that case with no Wind it wouldn't get the effect. So that by the time that the Wind comes out that it's too late? This has been bugging me.
 
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JOls said:
He's got a good point. The ruling is:
If there is only 1 WIND monster on the field, and you attack and destroy it with "Element Dragon", you cannot attack again because there is no longer a WIND monster on the field so "Element Dragon" no longer has that ability.

That suggests that the continuous effect would go into play immediately, so why can't he attack a second time if a wind creature was special summoned? The battle is not over.
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First situation: If "Element Dragon" attacks a face-up WIND monster and destroys it, his continuous effect will kick in, but if that monster is the only face-up monster on the field, if it gets sent to the Graveyard, "Elemen Dragon"'s continuous effect disappears.

Second situation: If "Element Dragon" destroys "Masked Dragon" in battle (and there is no WIND monster on the field), "Element Dragon"'s effect won't kick in. So it is pointless even if "Masked Dragon" special summons a WIND dragon to the field becuase the effect never kicked-in in the first place.
 
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BobDoily said:
That's what I'm leaning towards myself. So the timing would be in the damage step before hand.
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Yes. There is one timing that must be true before "Element Dragon" can attack twice: "a face-up WIND monster must be face-up at all time from the moment "Element Dragon" destroy a monster from battle up to the moment he enters Damage Step on his second attack". If, in any time, a face-up WIND monster no longer exist on the field (even for a fraction of a moment) during those time, "Element Dragon" can't attack for the second time anymore.
 
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Hmmm... So if Element Dragon destroys another monster on the field, and there is still a wind monster on the field and that owner activates IMT at the beginning of the battle step and removes the only Wind creature, does Element Dragon's second attack cease immediately or is his ability to attack a second time a state that was set upon him by successfully destroying a creature at the same time that a wind creature was still on the field?

Hey Raige, where did you get that italicized quote from about Element Dragon?
 
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Heh, I just made it up out of deduction reasoning. It may be wrong, mind you!

EDIT: If you manage to remove the last WIND monster on the field during Battle Step, I would think the attack would stop. Just like if you destroy "Skill Drain" during Battle Step while "Zombyra the Dark" is attacking directly.
 
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Seems to me that if a WIND monster is summoned in the damge step Element Dragon's first attack has not concluded. Not completely. So the condition for his effect to attack once again in a row would now be met. It would be different if the attack had completed but we are still in a Damage Sub Step when the summoning takes place.
 
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i would assume it to be the same as the rulings to do with the double attack equips cards. The attack is negated because the monster no longer is allowed two attacks.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Seems to me that if a WIND monster is summoned in the damge step Element Dragon's first attack has not concluded. Not completely. So the condition for his effect to attack once again in a row would now be met. It would be different if the attack had completed but we are still in a Damage Sub Step when the summoning takes place.
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The attack has been concluded and successful once you reach Damage Sub-step 4: Damage Calculation part 2: Apply damage. This is why "Penguin Soldier" can't target it's self once its effect resolves in Damage Sub-step 5. In addition, "Masked Dragon"'s Graveyard effect will activate during Damage Sub-step 6, way-way after he was destroyed.
 
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What I can't understand is how can the effect "shut off" when the only WIND monster on the field is destroyed during the Damage Step but not "turn on" when the only WIND monster is Special Summoned during the Damge Step?
 
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BobDoily said:
i would assume it to be the same as the rulings to do with the double attack equips cards. The attack is negated because the monster no longer is allowed two attacks.
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I think you are talking about "Twin Swords of Flashing Light - Tryce". And if you look at his third ruling:
3. When you declare the second attack of a monster equipped with "Twin Swords of Flashing Light - Tryce", and the "Twin Swords of Flashing Light - Tryce" is destroyed during the Battle Step with "Mystical Space Typhoon", the monster is no longer capable of performing the second attack, and a replay occurs.

I think the same principles apply.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
What I can't understand is how can the effect "shut off" when the only WIND monster on the field is destroyed during the Damage Step but not "turn on" when the only WIND monster is Special Summoned during the Damge Step?
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Here is the range of timing on where a WIND monster must be present, at all times, in order for "Element Dragon" to attack twice:
  • Start: Destroy a monster in Battle (Damage Sub-step 4: Damage Calculation part 2: Apply damage)
  • End: Damage Sub-step 1.
Analysis:
  1. If you enter "Start" above without a WIND monster on the field, you have miss the timing. This is the time when "Element Dragon" destroys a monster in battle.
  2. If you enter "End" above, you have pass the timing, so the second attack will go through because the battle is already happening.
 
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So if the continuous effect of being able to attack a second time is interrupted at any time after the trigger point (destroying another monster) and before the end of damage of the second attack, it immediately prevents the second attack from going through even though the continuous effect may be reinstated. That makes sense. If Skill Drain was activated and then destroyed after resolving in the same battle step at the start of the second attack, it would also shut off the attack. Right?
 
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