Exiled Force and Macro Cosmos

[kansashoops]

I can't seem to find any rulings/posts on this, so I thought I'd ask. The ruling for Skill Drain that allows Exiled Force's effect to work when Skill Drain is on the field says that Exiled Force's effect activates in the graveyard. If that's the case, wouldn't Exiled Force's effect be negated by Macro Cosmos, just like any other effects that activate in the graveyard (Sangan, Mystic Tomato, etc.)?

 

[skey23]

That ruling is not correct. It needs to be removed from the UDE site, or corrected. We've pleaded and begged, but to no avail.

"Exiled Force"s effect doesn't activate in the Graveyard. His effect activates and resolves on the Field. As such, even if "Macro Cosmos" is active, his effect will still activate and resolve properly because his effect does not require him to go to the Graveyard.

Hope this helps!

 

[kansashoops]

Ah, that explains it, although it does reinforce my belief that Exiled Force should not work when Skill Drain is on the field.

 

[Kyhotae]

How so? If "Exiled Force" isn't on the field when his effect resolves, how can be negated by "Skill Drain" whether he goes to the Graveyard or goes out of play?

 

[Digital Jedi]

Ah, that explains it, although it does reinforce my belief that Exiled Force should not work when Skill Drain is on the field.

Skill Drain negates the effects of face-up cards on the field. It does not prevent their activation. If a face-up card is activated while Skill Drain is in play and no longer face-up when it resolves, then its effect cannot be negated by Skill Drain. This is why certain Book of Moon or Compulsory Activation Device combos are utilized in Skill Drain decks.

 

[Dillie-O]

Remember, there is a distinct difference between where a card physically is, and where its effect activates, and where its effect potentially resolves.

That said, Exiled Force's effect is on the field when it activates and resolves, but Skill Drain only negates the effects (not activation) of cards that are face up on the field. Exiled Force would have to remain on the field in order to get negated.

This is also why you can flip summon Dark Mimic LV1 and chain Book of Moon to its effect, when you resolve the chain backwards, Mimic is now face down, the effect can still resolve and Skill Drain can't touch it because the monster is not face up on the field during resolution.

Hope this helps!

 

[kansashoops]

Oh, I understand the reasoning on Exiled Force/Skill Drain. I just think the Skill Drain rulings make it unnecessarily complicated and dilute its value. Wipe your mind of all the complexities you are used to dealing with in this game, and just read the card text. To me, that card says that while Skill Drain is on the field, any effect monsters on the field have no effects--i.e., they are no different than a normal monster like Gemini Elf. I can understand rulings that say that Cyber Dragon's effect will work, because it activates in the hand before it reaches the field. And I can understand rulings that say that cards like Sangan and Mystic Tomato get their effects because they activate in the graveyard. But I don't think Exiled Force should work. I know it does, and I know why it does. I just don't think it should.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Pay 1000 Life Points. As long as this card remains on the field, the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field are negated.​

Actually, it does say "face-up" monsters. It says nothing about negating activation, nor does it say it can negate the effects of any and all monsters. It has a very specific purview based on it's text alone. I can understand where it might be misunterpreted, but a closer inspection of it's tect reveals it's not just a Vanilla Sky.

 

[Kyhotae]

Wipe your mind of all the complexities you are used to dealing with in this game, and just read the card text. To me, that card says that while Skill Drain is on the field, any effect monsters on the field have no effects--i.e., they are no different than a normal monster like Gemini Elf... I know it does, and I know why it does. I just don't think it should.

Uh. If I read "Skill Drain", it says:

Pay 1000 Life Points. As long as this card remains on the field, the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field are negated.

So, clearing my mind of all complexities, I believe the card works like this: All face-up Effect Monster effects are negated. It doesn't say they can't be activated, so they still have the effects, they are just negated if they are activated.

I think that's what everyone has said. Having an effect of an Effect Monster negated is not the same thing as being no different from Normal Monsters. It would have to say "...all face-up Effect Monsters have no effects and are treated as Normal Monsters." in order to get there.

Remember that there's a difference between activation and resolution. "Skill Drain" doesn't negate the activation of Effect Monsters (like "Divine Wrath" does), it just negates the resolution of the effects, provided the card is still face-up on the field at the time.

As you say, it's all in the text of the card.

 

[kansashoops]

I'm really sorry I brought this up. If you are distinguishing between negating the activation of an effect and negating its resolution, then you are not "clearing your mind of complexities." Exiled Force is face up on the field. Skill Drain negates its effect while it is face up. If the effect is negated, there should be nothing to activate. That's my point.

Please, let's just let this drop. We all understand how it works and why.

 

[Kyhotae]

Sure we can drop it, but you need to understand that distinguishing between activation and resolution is a KEY concept to the game mechanics of the TCG. It's not a "complexity" that UDE/Konami made up to confuse everyone.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

I'm really sorry I brought this up. If you are distinguishing between negating the activation of an effect and negating its resolution, then you are not "clearing your mind of complexities." Exiled Force is face up on the field. Skill Drain negates its effect while it is face up. If the effect is negated, there should be nothing to activate. That's my point.

Please, let's just let this drop. We all understand how it works and why.

An effect activates, an effect resolves.

In this game, a negated effect DOES resolve. (Re: Spirit Reaper)

Now how is it suppsoed to resolve without activating?

 

[DH2K4]

I'm really sorry I brought this up. If you are distinguishing between negating the activation of an effect and negating its resolution, then you are not "clearing your mind of complexities." Exiled Force is face up on the field. Skill Drain negates its effect while it is face up. If the effect is negated, there should be nothing to activate. That's my point.

Please, let's just let this drop. We all understand how it works and why.

Okey then, lets clear our mind of complexities, and read the card text as it is.

Pay 1000 Life Points. As long as this card remains on the field, the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field are negated.

By reading, I see no mention of negating activation anywhere, so nothing is stopping people from activating effects, and if you read the very last word "negated" you realise that it removes the effect when the effect happens, there is a difference between negating something, and preventing you from playing/using stuff.

Monsters may have effects, but mean nothing until they are used. And when they are used, Skill Drain is able to negate them.

Plus, another thing you said "Exiled Force is face up on the field. Skill Drain negates its effect while it is face up. If the effect is negated, there should be nothing to activate. That's my point."

How can an effect be negated, if its never activated. Plus, with regards to how Exiled Force works, You want to activate Exiled Force's effect, whats the first thing you do, declare it, second, pay the cost, at this point, you haven't even activated the effect, you just paid the cost to activate it, and now, Exiled Force is not face-up on the field anymore, what does Skill Drain negate? Nothing.

Skill Drain is one of the more average cards to understand, other cards are simple, others are more complicated, Skill Drains in the middle, with a good knowledge of the basics, its simple to understand, well, for me it is anyway.