fires of doomsday and tributing face down

arkboy

arkboy

New Member
Hi guys, probably a stupid question and I imagine it's already been asked.

Fires of doomsday states that the tokens can be used as a tribute but only for a dark monster, does this mean that they can be tributed to set a dark monster?

I only wonder because face down monsters technicaly have no type, or does it count from the hand that they are dark?
 
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*tributes a token to set a monster with other set monsters on the field prior, then plays shifting shadows*

Now prove that the monster i just set is a DARK monster, alas my dilema

arkboy made this with regards to a topic started by me on another forum
 
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Well, the same could be said of any Set monster. Prove that the monster I just Set without Tributes was Level 4 or lower (or "Fusilier Dragon" using its effect or etc.).

While the wording may need to be better worded (or not, if Digital Jedi is somehow wrong), we should just assume that the play was legal and move on from there. If you're in a tournament and you have doubts, you can always call a Judge over and ask them to verify if the play was legal (without revealing the card to you).

But if someone's trying to get away with cheating like this, you're better off not playing with them.
 
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In some cases, yes. Kind of like, how do I prove that I set that 5 Star WATER Monster without after I activated A Legendary Ocean? I had other face-downs on the field, and then played Shifting Shadows.

I don't think I'm mistaken here, unless something changed in the last few months, which is possible (that whole requiring the monsters to be on the field thing, for example). But as I recall, since a summon and a Set are essentially the same thing, you would be able to do so.

The scenario is kind of rare anyway, and it's still not likely you'd be able to get away with it. After all, at some point I'm going to see all your face-downs more then likely. One of them, and only one needs to be a high level DARK Monster, or your busted.
 
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I can't agree with a set and summon being basically the same thing. From page 16 of the rulebook (from yugioh-card.com):

"It’s important to remember that a monster Set on the field in face-down Defense Position IS NOT considered Summoned."

Additionally, monsters that are not allowed to be Normal Summoned but stipulate nothing about being Set (such as Cave Dragon and Terrorking Archfiend) are still allowed to be Set - hence the reason that many cards say "cannot be Normal Summoned or Set."
 
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The rule book is trying to make a distinction between how the two behave. If I remember correctly, the OCG has only one word for both actions, with a modifier that distinguishes them.

But let's take your logic a step further. Terrorking Archfiend and Cave Dragon both say the can't be Normal Summoned unless X exists on your side of the field. Because they specify a Normal Summon, you can Normal Set them without the existance of X.

If we apply that rule in all cases, then that means it applies to Fires of Doomsday as well. It says the Doomsday "tokens cannot be Tributed for a Tribute Summon unless..." just as Terrorking says "This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Flip Summoned unless...". So because a Set is not the same thing as a summon, then I can tribute the tokens for any Attribute Monster as long I Set it?

I personally don't think the ruling goes that far. I think it's a specific case of wording on Terroking and Cave Dragon, and not so on Fires of Doomsday. Otherwise, the implications are too far fetched.


EDIT: Now I remember why I should have installed that Spell Checker on CoG. Hotel Computers have sucky browsers.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
The rule book is trying to make a distinction between how the two behave. If I remember correctly, the OCG has only one word for both actions, with a modifier that distinguishes them.
Click to expand...
More or less. The OCG term "Normal Summon" is the TCG term "Normal Summon or Set", and the OCG term "Summon" is the TCG term "Normal Summon". If something prevents (OCG) Normal Summons, then it prevents (TCG) Normal Summons and Sets.

The OCG term "Advance Summon" is usually translated as the TCG term "Tribute Summon". However, an Advance Summon is a type of (OCG) Normal Summon, so the proper translation is "Tribute Summon or Tribute Set".

For "Fires of Doomsday", its OCG text says that you cannot use the Tokens for an Advance Summon, which means that they can be used for Tribute Sets.
But let's take your logic a step further. Terrorking Archfiend and Cave Dragon both say the can't be Normal Summoned unless X exists on your side of the field. Because they specify a Normal Summon, you can Normal Set them without the existance of X.

If we apply that rule in all cases, then that means it applies to Fires of Doomsday as well. It says the Doomsday "tokens cannot be Tributed for a Tribute Summon unless..." just as Terrorking says "This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Flip Summoned unless...". So because a Set is not the same thing as a summon, then I can tribute the tokens for any Attribute Monster as long I Set it?

I personally don't think the ruling goes that far. I think it's a specific case of wording on Terroking and Cave Dragon, and not so on Fires of Doomsday. Otherwise, the implications are too far fetched.
Click to expand...
Likewise, the OCG text says that "Terrorking Archfiend" and "Cave Dragon" cannot be (OCG) Summoned or Flip Summoned unless »«. This means that you cannot (TCG) Normal Summon it, but you can Set it.
 
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