Fusion Recovery

M

Madma

New Member
I activate Polymerization, sending Dark Magician and King of the Swamp to the Graveyard: I summon Dark Paladin. Later, I use De-Fusion and Dark Magician and King of the Swamp are summoned on the field, then they are sent to the graveyard again by an effect.

Can I use Fusion Recovery to bring back in my hand one of these monsters that were used for a fusion summon and the Polymerization used previosly, or are they no longer considered used for a fusion summon, since they were summoned and sent to the graveyard again, making this move illegal?
 
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If I had to give a ruling on this, I would say it would not be a legal move.

Once the material monsters were returned to the field from the Graveyard, the fact they were used in a previous Fusion Summon would be 'lost' or 'forgotten', imo. This would be similar to how certain effects reset when cards go to the Graveyard and are returned again.

This is just how I would rule. I am not giving an official answer here.
 
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anthonyj said:
I didn't think so either so I was quite surprised to see that ruling. Looks like cards with Dimension in them are apt to cause mistakes from UDE.
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That is a strange ruling... I don't think I understand it either...?

Back on to the question at hand, I agree with Skey. Since the monsters were summoned with De-Fusion back to the field, I don't think they're considered to be Fusion Materials that were used in a fusion summon anymore. I'd love if I could think of an example with other cards effects that are similar... But alas, I can't... If I do, I'll be sure to post that.

Then again... There is the possibility that we're all wrong...
 
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Official FAQ said:
You can use "Fusion Recovery" to retrieve a Fusion Material Monster that was used with "Power Bond" or "Fusion Gate" or "Polymerization".
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Gah! This sounds more like a case of mis or incomplete translation. How much you want to bet that Fusion Recovery is supposed to work this way and it isn't stated properly, like Ultimate Offering?

I think your all on the right track here. Vampire Lord won't return if he's destroyed properly, returned to the field and then improperly sent to the Graveyard again before his Special Summoning effect triggers.

Not exactly trhe same thing, but I think the same principle aplys.
 
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Actually I'm pretty dead set on it being more about a game fact than actually legal activation. The game fact of the monsters being considered Fusion Material cards lifts once De-Fusion removes them from the Graveyard and onto the field.

Just like how if you activate and resolve BLS's removal effect while Skill Drain ISN'T active on the field it still can't attack because of the game fact that was placed on it.

These are just my opinions. =/
 
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I don't think we really need to wait for an official ruling. Just use logic to break down each situation and compare rulings to one another. Finally, break down card text when or if it is needed.

That's why I say Toon Gemini Elf and other Toon Monsters can attack the turn that they're summoned while Skill Drain is out on the field and why they still can attack when they're summoned and Skill Drain is destroyed after their effect is negated. It doens't create a game fact or some kind of tricky condition to understand, it just simply works on how effects activate and resolve.

Same thing IMO applies here with this situation with Fusion Recovery. The game fact that's created is that the monsters are given the status as monsters that were used in Fusion Material for a Fusion Summoning. De-Fusion and other cards that remove those monsters from the Graveyard and then later return to the Graveyard some how will lift that game fact from Fusion Recovery's eyes.

It's thinking, "I see two Fusion Material Monsters and a Poly, hmmm..." then after De-Fusion, "Where did they go? I was gonna give my buddy here a friend and a nice little spell card." and since Fusion Recovery doesn't see that game fact anymore it will not work.

Once again (like I said in another thread) these are just my opinions.
 
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Tkwiget said:
.Just like how if you activate and resolve BLS's removal effect while Skill Drain ISN'T active on the field it still can't attack because of the game fact that was placed on it.

These are just my opinions. =/
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Alright, since you bring it up....and just to play devil's advocate....which I dearly love to do....If BLS has been summoned properly, is destroyed and sent to the graveyard, then is special summoned back with Premature Burial or Call of the Haunted....does that take away the fact that it was properly summoned to begin with and the next time it goes to the graveyard it can't be special summoned again?....Of course not.

So once a monster has been used for a fusion summon, as long as it doesn't return to the hand, does it take away the fact it was used to fusion summon a monster?

Just food for thought.....don't read too much into what I said...there just isn't that much to read into it!
 
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Interesting "food for thought" John. =P

It makes me almost flip flop my ruling.

But the BLS's summoning successfully and then being able to use Premature and other cards on it IMO is a little different.

But I see the reference you're getting at and I now have two rulings on this. =/ Nice work John!@! xD
 
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John Danker said:
Alright, since you bring it up....and just to play devil's advocate....which I dearly love to do....If BLS has been summoned properly, is destroyed and sent to the graveyard, then is special summoned back with Premature Burial or Call of the Haunted....does that take away the fact that it was properly summoned to begin with and the next time it goes to the graveyard it can't be special summoned again?....Of course not.

So once a monster has been used for a fusion summon, as long as it doesn't return to the hand, does it take away the fact it was used to fusion summon a monster?

Just food for thought.....don't read too much into what I said...there just isn't that much to read into it!
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<Throws rock at John's head> Who did that!? Stupid birds! <Walks away whistling>
 
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I still can't understand why John does that to us. When someone like me that already struggles enough with understand the advanced mechanics while remembering the basic ones is hard enough.

Confusing an already confused individual is like, cruel. o_O''

But it does make us think.

Lets first step back at the situation fresh.


Polymerization is activated. Dark Magician and King of the Swamp are placed in the Graveyard. Later in the game the same player attempts to use De-Fusion to bring them back to the field. Later they're destroyed. Now that player attempts to activate Fusion Recovery.

I still see very little chance that it is legal to activate it. But as we know and as John pointed out, if the monsters are returned to the hand they lose whatever status they once held. IMO that holds true if they were removed from play as well. But that to me is a huge, "Duh!!!!"

The question I'm going to present is this.

Does a Fusion Summoning in the first place create a game fact that labels monsters with a status of or as a Fusion Material Monster Card, that was used for a Fusion Summoning? Even after De-Fusion was used and those monsters were destroyed or sent to the Graveyard.

Also, is there even a game fact at all in this situation? Wow, how the wheels just keep turning...<starts throwing rocks at John and then runs all girly-like>
 
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<Shrug> I'm a judge....do you think you're the FIRST one to throw rocks at me? Heck, I was a bouncer, I used to get paid to have people throw hotdogs and an occasional knife at me <laffin> I'm a husband....the looks I get thrown at me are like daggers anyway....

and why do I throw out stuff like this? You already said it, it makes you think. Only by fully Reasoning out each question like this and doing reasearch will you ever be fully confident that not only do you have the right ruling....but have a basis for other rulings you're put up agaist a wall to make when there IS no official answer.
 
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You mean your wife doesn't throw real daggers?

...

Me and Miranda are going to have to have a little talk.

So I willing to bet another fictional amount of money that I don't nor ever will have that this paticualr condition has not been defined for us yet.
 
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I've been thinking very hard on this too John. (Since I've started posting in the thread.) And this is my analyze of the situation.

There is no game fact being lifted whatsoever. The monsters will be considered as Fusion Material cards even after De-Fusion is used. Why?

1) They aren't removed from play. (The part about it working with Fusion Gate looks incorrect because Fusion Gate removes the cards from play...)
2) They aren't returned to your hand.

Now, check out Fusion Recovery's text more closely. (Something I think was over looked from the beginning.)

"Add 1 "Polymerization", and 1 Fusion Material Monster that was used for a Fusion Summon, from your Graveyard to your hand."

That bolded part of the text makes the situation and Fusion Recovery's activation legal in the situation.

So to simplify my answer, here it is.

Yes, you can use Fusion Recovery in your situation Madma. =)
 
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