Fusion Substitutes

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Phred

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Just how much do Fusion Substitutes like King of the Swamp work?
Can I use substitutes for Miracle Fusion and Dragon's Mirror fusions?
 
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Short answer: As long as the Fusion Monster does not have the text
"A Fusion Summon of this monster can only be conducted with the above Fusion Material Monsters" you can use Fusion Substitues for the fusion Summon.

Long answer: Those cards (above) can still be Special Summoned by the second effect of cards like "The Hex-Sealed Fusion" cards.

Some Cards do not allow fusion Substitues (Future Fusion) and some will allow for limited use of Fusion Subs (Chimeratech will allow a substitution for the "Cyber Dragon", but not "1 or more machine type Monsters" and Five-Headed Dragon will not allow any, as they need to be Dragons.)

That said, Dragon's Mirror, Miracle Fusion and Overload Fusion do allow Substitutes.

Keep in mind, though, that a lot of the E-Heroes have this text that does not allow for subs and is not considered a Fusion Summon:

"This card can only be Special Summoned from your Fusion Deck by returning the above cards from your side of the field to the Deck. (You do not use "Polymerization".)"
 
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a point of clarification please... the light,dark, earth sealed hex's are all fusion subs....as such i thought they were equivalent to king of swamp in that there was no attribute restriction on the fusion monster being summoned by another card (not hex's 2nd effect) effect like miracle fusion, dragons mirror etc....and that the attribute restriction was only put on the hex's second effect to special summon...
 
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The Hex-Sealed Fusions are Fusion Substitute monsters. They can be substitutes for any Fusion Material Monster, not just ones with the same Attribute as that particular Hex. In that respect they're no different to any other Fusion Substitute monster.

Fusion Substitute monsters can only be Fusion Substitutes for specifically named Fusion Material monsters. Cases such as "5 Dragon-Type monsters" or "1 or more Machine-Type monsters" are not specifically naming which Fusion Material monsters it needs, and as such you cannot use Fusion Substitute monsters for them.

Chimeratech Overdragon does, however, also specifically mention Cyber Dragon (once), and as such that Cyber Dragon can be replaced by a Fusion Substitute monster.



On a side note, I still don't get the Future Fusion doesn't allow Fusion Substitutes" ruling. BKSS? Because you can Special Summon a Familiar-Possessed - Eria from your Deck with its effect, so effects of monsters in your Deck can be used. Plus there's nothing in the wording of Future Fusion to suggest that Fusion Substitutes cannot be used.
 
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Maruno said:
On a side note, I still don't get the "Future Fusion doesn't allow Fusion Substitutes" ruling. BKSS? Because you can Special Summon a Familiar-Possessed - Eria from your Deck with its effect, so effects of monsters in your Deck can be used. Plus there's nothing in the wording of Future Fusion to suggest that Fusion Substitutes cannot be used.
Click to expand...

I asked the same question awhile ago. It's a BKSS situation.
 
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Send, from your Deck to the Graveyard, Fusion Material Monsters that are listed on a Fusion Monster Card​

It's not a BKSS situation. No card in the deck can be considered known, unless an effect is in play that changes that rule. Familiar-Possessed - Eria can't be used as an example because she has an effect that specifically contradicts that rule. This is a special effect that is active in the Deck and grants her the ability to be retrieved without the benefit of an outside card instructing her to do so.

Future Fusion would require two things to change in order for you to use Fusion Substitutes with them. First, it would have to allow you to search your deck for a card. Then it would have to grant Fusion Subs the ability to qualify as subs in the Deck. While it does do the first, there is no precedent for the second. Fusion Subs have never had their effect applicable in the Deck, just like most Effect Monsters. It's possible they could have expanded their use to include the Deck as well, but it would be necessary for them to actual expand that use, and not for it to just apply there because it applies everywhere else.
 
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Skey23 said:
A few things.

Yes, Fusion Subs have the ability to be Fusions Subs while in the Deck. They have that ability while in the Hand, Graveyard, Field and RFP Zone already. Why not the Deck?

The reason you can't use Fusion Subs with "Future Fusion" is simply a Because Konami Said So ruling. It is currently the ONLY Fusion Summon method that cannot use Fusion Subs.

So, having said that, to answer the initial [url="http://www.cogonline.net/threads.18682&highlight=future+fusion#"]Question[/url]. Yes, you most certainly CAN use Fusion Subs with "Vehicroid Connection Zone". However, as DaGuy kindly pointed out, the only monster you can currently Fusion Summon with "Vehicroid Connection Zone" prevents the use of Fusion Subs.

Just because the monster prevents Fusion Subs, doesn't mean the card can't use them.


Hope this helps!
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Click to expand...

Here is the answer I got from an earlier post when I asked the question on Future Fusion and Veichroid Connection Zone...
 
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Well, wouldn't be the first time Simon and I disagreed on something. ;)

I still stand by my original statement though. I agree that there is no other Fusion Summon effect doesn't let you use Fusion Subs. But there is also no other Fusion Summon effect that asks you to take the materials from your deck. When posed with the question, "why not the Deck?", I would have to say that its never been defined before. And it would appear that it's being defined now.
 
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