"gemini" monsters

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rickfx1996

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i have read the rulings on the taev set and know "gemini" monsters are considered normal monster while on the field and graveyard until "re-summoned". Can i use ancient rules to summon a level 5 "gemini" monster or use summoner's art to search for a level 5 or higher "gemini" monster. or are they considered effect monster's while in the hand and deck?? thanks
 
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Similarly, I have one question about them as well, which my friend keeps asking me, and I really don't have an exact answer on it, only my opinion vs. his. I bolded the question, the rest is mostly just rambling as to my reasons on what I told him.

After the Gemini monster on the field gets its Gemini Effect, is that monster /still/ considered to be a Normal monster, or is it now only an Effect monster?

It's very crucial for some older cards and new ones both, like Justi-Break especially, and perhaps even Birthright to a degree, then Symbols of Duty or Creature Seizure, which both target a Normal monster on the field.

I've said that they would still be Normal monsters, after getting their effect, and all of those cards would work, because part of the card's effect is that it's counted as a Normal monster on the field or in the graveyard, and giving it its Gemini effect doesn't change that part of the effect, but my friend thinks it might.

I was thinking especially of Birthright, which targets only a Normal Monster, so if the Gemini monster gets its Gemini Effect, and did happen to lose the ability for it to be Normal, Birthright would then have an illegal target and be destroyed, and possibly take the Gemini monster with it.
 
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If that's the case, what will happen with Birthright, specifically? Since it would no longer target a normal monster, when a Gemini Monster gets its Gemini Effect, wouldn't that destroy them both?
 
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Okay, WHY would it destroy Birthright only? I'm just curious as to why it would. I'm going to play devil's advocate here and argue some points.

Birthright says:
"Select 1 Normal Monster from your graveyard and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When this card is removed from the field, destroy that monster. When that monster is removed from the field, destroy this card."


So with the first line.... no problem there, you've done what it asks to activate it, targetted a Normal Monster in the graveyard.
Here's where the trouble starts. "When this card is removed from the field, destroy that monster. When that monster is removed from the field, destroy this card."
If the monster is Normal summoned again to get its other effect, since the monster is always an effect monster that has the effect of being a Normal monster while on the field and in the graveyard, and it then loses its first effect, of being a normal monster, as was mentioned, and only becomes an effect monster, Birthright would have an illegal target now by that logic... so by the same game logic, since the original target is illegal, something has to happen with Birthright, right?

Birthright WAS equipped to the monster, is it no longer equipped to it, when it loses the effect of being normal? The way I see it, it's still equipped, it's the same monster, it's just so longer normal. If Birthright is destroyed, it's stated right on the card that the monster it was equipped to is destroyed. So the Gemini Monster should be destroyed, as well, by logic. If by some crazy reason, it's no longer the same monster, when it loses the effect of being a Normal Monster, anything equipped on it should be destroyed by that logic, since it's not the same creature.

Does anyone have any sound reasoning why it would work to where only Birthright is destroyed?

I can sort of understand why the Gemini monsters won't be treated as Normal monsters when they've gotten their Gemini effect, as it states then to "have it be treated as an Effect Monster with this effect." I can understand that it may lose its original effect and gain that one, but in the same respect, that should cause a problem with Birthright, if no other card in particular, because of its wording. I guess I'm just looking for the reason Birthright would be destroyed, but not the monster that was equipped to it, in that case, and I'm not finding it anywhere to really make sense.
 
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Birthright only cares that the monster is a Normal Monster in the Graveyard. As you noticed, once the monster is summoned, all that is checked is if the monster and itself are still on the field and if 1 leaves destroy the other.

Birthright also targets the monster but it never equips itself to it (like the was Blast With Chain does). It's for the most part almost idendical to Call of the Haunted. So does resummoning the monster cause the card to leave play or for all S/T cards to leave play? Nope.

So basically Birthright keeps functioning the same way after a resummon as it would before. Again, no need to make it far more complicated than it is.
 
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So Birthright will stay on the field then, even if the monster is Gemini Summoned, and therefore if it's destroyed (Or Trunaded for that matter), so would the monster be destroyed, just like Call of the Haunted?
 
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densetsu_x said:
Birthright only cares that the monster is a Normal Monster in the Graveyard. As you noticed, once the monster is summoned, all that is checked is if the monster and itself are still on the field and if 1 leaves destroy the other.

Birthright also targets the monster but it never equips itself to it (like the was Blast With Chain does). It's for the most part almost idendical to Call of the Haunted. So does resummoning the monster cause the card to leave play or for all S/T cards to leave play? Nope.

So basically Birthright keeps functioning the same way after a resummon as it would before. Again, no need to make it far more complicated than it is.
Click to expand...
The point you have missed with the Gemini Monsters, are that they are resummoned. And can be target for Trap Hole or Bottomless Trap Hole, Torrential Tribute etc.
At the point you Gemini Summon it it leaves the field and is resummoned getting the effect.
It looses its target in the case of Birthright or Premature Burial.



TAEV FAQ said:
When you have a Gemini monster already face-up on the field, you may use your Normal Summon to turn on the effect of the Gemini monster, making it an Effect Monster on the field. This is treated the same as any other Normal Summon, so cards that may be activated in response to a Normal Summon may be activated now, such as "Torrential Tribute" or the effect of "Mysterious Puppeteer".

If the Gemini monster you have on the field is Level 5 or higher, you do NOT need to Tribute monsters again for this Normal Summon.

You can use your standard, once-per-turn, Normal Summon or a Normal Summon granted by a card's effect, such as "Ultimate Offering".

When you Normal Summon a Gemini monster that you already have on the field, if it now has an Ignition Effect you can activate it at that time, just like other monsters that have Ignition Effects ("Exiled Force", etc.) Also note that when a card's effect refers to Gemini monsters (without quotes), it does NOT mean cards with "Gemini" in the card name, such as "Gemini Elf" or "Gemini Summner".
Click to expand...
 
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Raistlin Majere said:
The point you have missed with the Gemini Monsters, are that they are resummoned. And can be target for Trap Hole or Bottomless Trap Hole, Torrential Tribute etc.
At the point you Gemini Summon it it leaves the field and is resummoned getting the effect.
It looses its target in the case of Birthright or Premature Burial.
Click to expand...

Can you point out where on those rulings does it say the monster leaves the field?
 
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Yeah I was about to say the same thing. Resummoning the monster may open the window to do those other things but it's not like you picked the monster up off the field and placed it down again. You simply point and say "Re-Summon!"
 
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True that, Densetsu. I can't wait for the response from UDE on this (and others). But I would say that if it were a proper re-summoning, to wit loosing targets for equip, et al., then you should have to repay a Tribute for 5*+; But you don't. Therefore, I can't see (and would be a little disappointed, although seeing opportuniy to abuse a few cards) second summoning causing target loss.

The whole thing is a little weird. But it wouldn't be YuGiOh! if it weren't a little weird now and again!
 
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