General Opinion: the Extra Deck's limit

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qwert

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What do you guys think ultimately clenched it for the Extra Deck so that it had an upper max of 15 cards?
  • Fusion-Material substitutes: it became more and more necessary to toss in restrictions for even basic fusion monsters due to the ease substitutes provided. Towards the end, there were nearly a dozen different monsters you could use in place of the tough stuff so you could whip out some real bad-ass monsters like Dragon Master Knight or Elemental Hero Shining Flare Wingman. Who needs the Ultimate Dragon when you can just toss in a swamp king instead?
  • Super Polymerization: just have one of every Fusion monster you can get your hands on ready to go, and you can always fuse practically anything together, and at Trap card speed no less. Substitutes don't exactly help this either.
  • Synchro monsters: it seems that while some do require particular Tuners to be summoned, most can operate with any old Tuner out. It's a level of flexibility unknown even to the most devoted Fusion deck.
If you can think of anything else that may have done the trick, let me know.
 
My questionable thought on this is due to the prominence of 80+ card decks out there that are run in Japan... many of them come with 40+ Fusions and they are surprisingly hard to beat. They also eliminate a mill deck's ability... not official or found anywhere, just my own musing.
 
Um, 80+ card deck? You do know that fusions are not included in the MAIN deck right? I find it hard to believe that an 80+ card deck is 'hard to defeat'. Other than that, the new flexibility of the side deck (soon to be called 'extra deck') isn't a bad idea. It don't see it having any real impact on the game nor will players change their ways in regard to the side deck.
As for fusions, again no big deal. In the current meta, hardly any fusion monsters are seeing play. Only Gladiator Beast - Heraklinos will be seen in tourneys and perhaps that Superalloy Beast what's-his-name (you the guy that immediatly activates the effects of Gemini monsters)? You could see that in a small tourney considering it's tier 2 (Gigaplant)...

P.S.: mill decks aren't run anymore :rolleyes: , just thought I'd mention it :D
 
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Why not propose an answer to the original question instead of just trying to shoot down what I said and I even stated that it's questionable? I found it hard to believe too but that's what I've heard and seen. And yes, I know that stuff about how decks are structured. So most of your post is worthless.

Also, I think the 0-15 side deck WILL be a major problem for tourneys as it will cause protests when people accidentally/intentionally side in more/less cards than they had and the judges miss it. Keeping the side deck at 15 is the safest way to go but alas.
 
vanguard said:
Um, 80+ card deck? You do know that fusions are not included in the MAIN deck right? I find it hard to believe that an 80+ card deck is 'hard to defeat'.
Click to expand...
That's because you've never played against a Jank Deck.

[EVIL]Bwahahahahahahah!!![/EVIL]
 
I do not know about Fusions, Synchro's, Tuners, Psychic Monsters, Lightlords..or anything like that.
Fact is, I don't want to know, unless I have to duel one.

I also did not check out that link (lazy me), but all I DO know, is if you are running heaps of "Searchers" & "Recruiters", keeping your main deck above 40 cards is a VERY good idea.

I used to have a 40 card deck running 3X Giant Germs. I always used to draw 2 either in my opening hand, or within a very short space of each other. Now that my deck is 42 cards, I do not have that problem anymore.
Also, if I choose to run Mystic Tomatoes as well, I would increase that number to 45.
I have seen burn decks running things like 3X Nimbles, 3X Giant Rats, 3X Thunder Dragons etc.
If I had a deck with those in it, I would probably run 50 cards.

I would NEVER run any more than a 50 card deck though, because the main aim of those kinds of monsters is to "thin the deck out". The more cards you put in to accomodate bad topdecks, the more it defeats this purpose.

Mentioning "deck out"...I used to run that & it died the same time that Cyber Jar & Tsukuyomi did.
Not to mention that Magician of Faith is banned now. So much for getting your Card Destruction back...

Anyways. as mentioned, Fusions don't count towards your overall deck/side-deck tally & this format, a lot of what goes into a side-deck is to try & counter OTK/FTK's..IF that is possible, OR to try & beat decks like Macro & the few burn decks that are left. A lot of them side Shadow Imprisoning Mirrors & such...
 
The purpose of this thread was to discuss the topic at hand and try to establish the reasoning behind this new limit. Does nobody have any actual input into this topic?
 
Well, I don't think it hasn't been addressed. I just don't think everyone is on the same page. Going by the comments, I don't think everyone knows what your referring to. But to clarify for everyone:

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion_Deck
The Fusion Deck (Soon to be called Extra Deck in the Japanese version) is a Deck where the Fusion Monsters are stored during a Duel. They are separate from the Main Deck, and you can search through it to find a Fusion Monster that you need. There is currently no limit as to how many cards you can use in the Fusion Deck, but the OCG appears to be moving toward a 15-card limit (which is also enforced in many Video Games)
Click to expand...
With the release of the Synchro Monsters, which also go into the Fusion Deck, the deck name has now officially been changed to "Extra Deck" in the OCG.
Click to expand...
 
SoilentG said:
Also, I think the 0-15 side deck WILL be a major problem for tourneys as it will cause protests when people accidentally/intentionally side in more/less cards than they had and the judges miss it. Keeping the side deck at 15 is the safest way to go but alas.
Click to expand...

here was my input with the the off-topic stuff removed.
 
Over 3.5 months since last post. Does...nobody have ANY idea as to what the logic is with the Extra Deck's limit? And for the zillionth time, I want insight into the rationale of a 15-card limit imposed atop something that was once unlimited.

And in case people STILL get things confused, I am referring to the Deck where you store Fusion and Synchro Monsters, NOT the Side Deck, where you store cards for added flexibility within a Match.
 
well, I haven't read any of the 'white' monsters effects or how they work, so I just assumed it had something to do with them. It will be interesting to see if people start putting fusion monsters in their side decks. Does this also mean there will be card irratta on ever card that says 'fusion deck' on it.

the only other logical explination is if they also change the '...and the cards in your Fusion Deck are NOT counted in the 40 card minimum limit of your Main Deck.'-p.5 of the offical rule book 6.0. If that changes and does count to your 40 card min. then you could have 35 fusion monsters and exodia and you would win every time. Ofcourse this change isn't likely, it would be a logical reason.
 
Rather than make errata for every card that ever says "Fusion Deck", I'm sure they'll just make the generalisation that "Fusion Deck = Extra Deck" (which it does).

The limit on the Extra Deck is most likely to force players to think a bit more about strategy. There's lots of good Fusion Monsters around, and presumably a fair number of Synchro monsters soon too, so it'd be very tempting to throw everything you have into the Extra Deck and cover yourself for every scenario. That makes it a bit too easy, I think.

Not much of a reason, I know. Another reason is that the Extra Deck should be listed on the Deck Sheet (as far as I know), and imposing a limit makes it easier to check for legality (who wants to go through a kid's E-Hero Deck full of all the Fusions?).
 
Not to mention, it makes the random Deck Check a heck of lot easier, as I'm sure John would agree if saw this.
 
Back in the day, when Magical Scientist and Metamorphosis were dominant in the game, people would literally show up to a game with a binder full of 3 of every possible fusion monster in the game. They typically used this as a stall tactic because they were "searching for the proper fusion monster to use" at that point in the game. This caused massive headaches, even if they were legitimately looking for a particular fusion.

I'd wager the same could apply when more and more synchro monsters enter the game. You could easily chock your Extra deck with Synchros and pull the same tactic.

Just my 10 bits.
 
Indeed. Since Synchro monsters need "1 Tuner monster + something else", you could easily have a variety of Synchro monsters to choose from by using the same Tribute monsters. It's like Super Robolady/Super Roboyarou, or Cyber End Dragon/Chimeratech Overdragon.

Too much choice means too much stalling. 15 cards is a nice balance between too many cards and not allowing Extra Deck-revolving Decks (e.g. E-Heroes). Plus the number is memorable, because it's the same as the Side Deck.
 
[info]Side deck.................(15 cards)
This is a seperate stack of cards you can use to change your Deck.
During a Match, after each Duel, you can swap any card from your
Side Deck with a card from you Main Deck to customize .....
-p.2 rules 6.0[/info]this does open the question of : can you have fusion monsters in your side deck?
 
No. You cannot have any synchro or fusion monsters in your side deck since they are to stay in your Extra deck.
 
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