Gravekeeper's Watch vs Night Assailant

[masterwoo0]

This to me is kind of unique as not many people in my area play Gravekeeper's.

We all know that Gravekeeper's Watch cannot negate cost effects. If Night Assailant is discarded as part of the cost to activate Tribe-Infecting Viruses effect, would the point of discarding Watcher occur when the opponent tries to resolve Night Assailant's effect, or is the timing missed because Night Assailant was part of a cost?

I think Night Assailant can be negated because his effect starts a new chain.

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

I don't see how it is possible to use the effect of Gravekeeper's Watcher since the ruling says that you can not use it against effects that discard cards as a cost (Tribe-Infecting Virus).

 

[masterwoo0]

You're not using it against Tribe, you're using it on "Night Assailant".

Remember, Night Assailant has an effect when it is discarded also, and you can send Night Assailant from your hand at anytime during your turn (or opponents turn, if he forces you to discard) to the Graveyard and get his effect.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Remember, Night Assailant has an effect when it is discarded also, and you can send Night Assailant from your hand at anytime during your turn (or opponents turn, if he forces you to discard) to the Graveyard and get his effect.

"When this card is sent directly from your hand to the Graveyard, return 1 Flip Effect Monster from your Graveyard to your hand. "

Where do you see "discard"?

Night Assailants effect does not include anything about being discarded.

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

You're not using it against Tribe, you're using it on "Night Assailant".

Remember, Night Assailant has an effect when it is discarded also, and you can send Night Assailant from your hand at anytime during your turn (or opponents turn, if he forces you to discard) to the Graveyard and get his effect.

Keep in mind that Night Assailant does not have a self-made 'discard me' effect. Some outside factor has to send it from your hand to the Graveyard.

Also, since Night Assailant does not discard a card as part of its effect, you would not be able to use Gravekeeper's Watcher against it anyway.

 

[masterwoo0]

Did anyone "read" the scenario???

Night Assailant was discarded for Tribe's effect. I do not ever remember reading ANYWHERE that you have to have a reason for Night Assailant to be sent to the Graveyard.

All cards are sent "somewhere". It's impossible for a card not to be sent. A destroyed card is "sent" to the Graveyard by default, unless another effect says otherwise.

A tributed card is sent to the Graveyard.

A discard is sent to the Graveyard.

A seventh card in hand is DISCARDED to the Graveyard.

Hmmmm. Would that mean that if I sent Night Assailant to the Graveyard since he was the seventh card in hand, I wouldnt get his effect??? NO! I could still activate his effect since he was SENT to the Graveyard as a Discard regardless of whether it says DISCARD in his text.

Now, the problem is whether a card that only needs to be sent to the Graveyard, that was sent as a Discard, can still be negated.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Once again: Gravekeeper's Watcher only works against cards taht include in their effect a discard.

Night Assailant doesn't inlcude anything about being discarded in its effect. So Gravekeeper's Watcher can't be used.

 

[novastar]

Examples of effects that could be negated by Gravekeeper's Watcher include:

- Morphing Jar (if Flip Summoned)
- Card Destruction
- Graceful Charity

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Is this what you were trying to get at?:

• If you activated Delinquent Duo, and your opponent discarded "Electric Snake" Electric Snake would then start a new chain.
  
  Could you use Gravekeeper Watcher against Electric Snake?

No you could not.
The part about the "Discard" in Electric Snake's text is not part of the actual effect. It is simply what "triggers" the effect.

 

[masterwoo0]

That's what I was trying to nail down. I wanted to make a clear distinction between a discard that takes place from a external effect (like End Phase discard, The Creator, etc.) using Night Assailant, versus one that "includes" it as part of its own effect (Graceful Charity, The Cheerful Coffin).