Great Dezard questions

J

Jathro

New Member
If Great Dezard is Special Summoned by Premature Burial or Call of the Haunted, and then later destroys 1 monster, the 'attached' Premature Burial or Call of the Haunted will be negated, right? Then what?

In the case of Premature Burial, is this similar to the ruling with Freed the Matchless General...
You can activate "Premature Burial" to Special Summon this card from the Graveyard, and then this card's effect will negate and destroy "Premature Burial". "Freed the Matchless General" will not be destroyed since the effect of "Premature Burial" was negated by his effect.
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And then what about Call of the Haunted? Would this be like Special Summoning Jinzo with Call and then Call remains there meaninglessly and Jinzo stays?

Thanks, guys.
 
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Cropz said:
a general definition of "targeting" would be: "when the player activating the card selects what's going to be affected when the card is activated, the card targets".
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But then that brings in the whole thing about how do you know if you select at activation or resolution...lol.

"Creature Swap" - The way the text is laid out, you'd think you selected at activation.

"Widespread Ruin" - Why do you select at resolution?

"Smashing Ground" - Same thing...lol.
 
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WHy d some have such a problem with the idea that Call of the Hauntesd is continuously targeting the monster? Look closely at this effect:
Call of the Haunted
Select 1 monster from your Graveyard and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When this card is removed from the field, destroy the monster. When the monster is destroyed, destroy this card.
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This is a Continuous Effect, folks. Continuous effects stay active watching the relevant game elements it interacts with until its removed from the field. Your getting to caught up in the use of the words "when" in the last two sentances and letting it lead you down the path that these are Trigger Effects sudden'y popping off the card when the card when one of the events happens. Trigger Effect or not, the card has to be keeping its eye on something in order to destroy itself or destroy the monster. It continuously monitors the Special Summoned monster. It's no differnt from Nightmare Wheel or Spellbinding Circle.

Just because these have visible continuous elements, doesn't make them tareting and Call not. This is a case where people get too wraped up in the text and forget the interntion of the card effect. The wording just allowed for some little loophole, but doesn't change the intention of the card effect.
 
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skey23 said:
But then that brings in the whole thing about how do you know if you select at activation or resolution...lol.

"Creature Swap" - The way the text is laid out, you'd think you selected at activation.

"Widespread Ruin" - Why do you select at resolution?

"Smashing Ground" - Same thing...lol.
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I would not put Widespread Ruin or Smashing Ground there, they are comparing attacks and defense then deciding which is higher, which makes them non-targetting.
 
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Cropz said:
the monster it was previously targeting is the one destroyed, this part of the effect is not considered targeting.
so if you have a 'Blue-Eyes Shining Dragon' (hypothetical) equipped with 'Premature Burial' and 'Premature Burial' is destroyed, you won't be able to negate the effect because it's not targeting the monster.
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Yes, "targeting" really happens at activation of a card or effect...however there is still an attachment aspect here for both PB and CotH, that is continual.

The destruction is really a carrying out of a previous targeting... and is done in a continuous fashion.
 
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probably just my pig headedness, I guess. :p Im not arguing, honestly. I see the logic behind it. And I understand how to apply it to similar situations.

One of the comparisons that I should probably NOT be making is to effects like Yomi Ship, which does not target.

Sak- destroys the attacking monster. How many monsters are attacking when it is activated? One. Therefore there is little choice for the effect.

Yomi Ship- destroys the monster that destroyed it. How many monsters destroyed it? One. Therefore there is little choice for the effect.

The difference obviously being that, with Sak (or similar trap) I am choosing to activate the card itself and use its effect. With Yomi Ship, the effect simply happens when the event occurs.

edit: ooh! before I forget, is Begone, Knave! targetting? Its unrelated, but Im thinking about a deck idea with it.
 
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skey23 said:
But then that brings in the whole thing about how do you know if you select at activation or resolution...lol.

"Creature Swap" - The way the text is laid out, you'd think you selected at activation.

"Widespread Ruin" - Why do you select at resolution?

"Smashing Ground" - Same thing...lol.
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Good question...

From what i've seen, there are 2 main criteria that stand out:

- If the effect itself is choosing the cards affected
ie, Smashing Ground

- If the opponent is included in the selection process
ie, Creature Swap

Generally, targeted effects involve only the caster him/herself choosing.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Your point exactly?
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Oh, I get what your saying now. Your clipped sentances aren't always clear. No, I didn't say that Continuous Effects are always continuous, I said whether they are triggered or not, the source of the effect is always continuous.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Oh, I get what your saying now. Your clipped sentances aren't always clear. No, I didn't say that Continuous Effects are always continuous, I said whether they are triggered or not, the source of the effect is always continuous.
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My point remains.

By what logic does Call continuously target? It summons, then later it destroys. In between, it sits. Just like Ultimate Offering sits when it's not being used to summon
 
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Jason_C said:
My point remains.

By what logic does Call continuously target? It summons, then later it destroys. In between, it sits. Just like Ultimate Offering sits when it's not being used to summon
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What logic determines that it just sits around doing nothing? The notion that it does that is contradicted by the Spirit Reaper ruling. But aside from that, the card has to be keeping an eye on the face-up monster it Special Summoned,, otherwise it wouldn't know when that monster was destroyed or what to destroy.

The ruling suggests that it keeps a continuous eye on the face-up monster it Special Summons. Otherwise it wouldn't know "when" its last two sentances should take effect. Detaching the last two sentances from the continuous protion of Call of the Haunted's effect would make those conditions rather then triggers. And we all know they are not conditions.
 
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Ultimate Offering is able to know when to summon a monster, despite not constantly checking for when it should summon a monster. How? Because it recognizes when its controller elects to activate the effect. Call ought to be able to recognize when the game state dictates its destruction.
 
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Jason_C said:
Ultimate Offering is able to know when to summon a monster, despite not constantly checking for when it should summon a monster. How? Because it recognizes when its controller elects to activate the effect. Call ought to be able to recognize when the game state dictates its destruction.
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Ultimate Offering doesn't need to target anything. And I don't ever recall hearing that it was a targeting effect. Ultimate Offering difers greatly from Call of the Haunted and I don't see where your making the comparision. For one, all Ultimate Offerin needs to do is wait till you pay 500. It's not targeting a monster, a player, the field or your hand. It simply is an effect that you choose to trigger.

Call on the other hand is not an effect that you can activate if you want to. It must look at the monster it summoned to be certain it's still there. If it's not looking at the monster, what is it using as a determinating factor when it or the monster is destroyed? Is it placing some kind of mark in the monster it Special Summoned? How can it simply "just know".
 
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