Guess what changes will be for Forbidden list for March 2007

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First, just to explain why Last Will is a -1.

I play Last Will. I set the state. Nothing else happens. I have now -1'ed myself.

Oh look, a monster from my side of the field went to my graveyard. That's 2 cards I have now lost so I'm at -2 at the moment.

Ok, I resolve the Last Will state and get 1 monster back. I'm back up to -1.

Yes, there are cards that can help 0 this out (Exiled Force and Zaborg come to mind) but that's due to their effects. But in of itself, it's a -1.

I had actually hoped that Heavy Storm was going to be banned this list (but at the same time unban Harpie's Feather Duster just to let people play with it when it doesn't matter so much). That said, I can see Heavy Storm getting banned. Maybe not on the next list but perhaps next September. At the same time, there likely will be some alternative for it. (Force of the Breaker really has an interesting mechanic for filling up your S/T zone.) Or, ban Heavy Storm and unrestrict Mystical Space Typhoon.
 
But you forget the use of Sangan or Gravekeeper Spy or even Treeborn Frog. =) And not to forget the infamous Cyber Dragon, Exiled Force, Don Zaloog or Cyber-stein combo which ends up with the usual +1 or +1 game. =p
 
It's why I said it's a useful -1 because of it's combo-ability. But in of itself it costs you 1 card from your hand (itself) with no return. It's why that card in of itself isn't the problem, just some of the others which can take advantage of it, but would still be a problem even if I had no Last Wills in my deck.
 
You can only play Last Will during your turn which means you have to lose a monster during your turn. That also means it probably wont be as a result of battle (except for recruiters).
e.g.:
So you attack with Gemini Elf. Your opp activated Sakuretsu Armor to destroy it. That is 1:1. Now you activate Last Will to summon something. That's another 1:1. There is no -1 here. When you lose a monster it is not an automatic -1 because your opponent used something to get rid of it. And if you suicided a recruiter then it will replace itself so there is no -1 there as well.
That the card's effect has a specific condition doesnt mean it's a -1 card.

I think it is a more balanced way to special summon a monster than Cyber Dragon. If you get in trouble during your battle phase you can summon something to protect yourself in main phase 2. What you search can only have max 1500 ATK and you summon it face-up. With Cyber Dragon you can summon something with him in main phase 1 if you want to press the attack, or just set a Dekoichi in main phase 2 to set up a draw for next turn. Last Will gives you more strategical options (because of the search) but less tactical options. Cyber Dragon gives you more tactical options and is therefor less predictable/more dangerous.

Last Will also rewards tribute summons. If it's too easy to use then that's because of Exiled Force.
 
Fury said:
The main weakness of Lightning Vortex is that it only affects face-up monsters. If it would destroy face-down ones as well it wouldnt be useless. So an additional discard to Heavy Storm also wouldnt make it worthless IMO.
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You missed the point I was trying to make. I said if they make the same problem as Lightning Vortex, where it can ONLY destroy face-up or face-down S/T's, then it would be garbage, as people would just find all the most chainable S/T's to use, depending on what they when with (up or down).
 
Fury said:
You can only play Last Will during your turn which means you have to lose a monster during your turn. That also means it probably wont be as a result of battle (except for recruiters).
e.g.:
So you attack with Gemini Elf. Your opp activated Sakuretsu Armor to destroy it. That is 1:1. Now you activate Last Will to summon something. That's another 1:1. There is no -1 here. When you lose a monster it is not an automatic -1 because your opponent used something to get rid of it. And if you suicided a recruiter then it will replace itself so there is no -1 there as well.
That the card's effect has a specific condition doesnt mean it's a -1 card.
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Again, yes there are ways to make it a 0 because it is highly comboable. But I can make the same argument about a card like Enemy Controller also. But it doesn't change the fact that in of itself it's a -1. You need help in 1 form or another to make it a 0 which only means that you took advantage of something else in order to offset negative that you get with the card itself.

(Case in point also: My opponent has Mirror Force set and I know he has Mirror Force set. I have 2 monsters on my side of the field. I play Giant Trunade [a -1] but because my monsters will be saved it becomes a +1 play for the turn. But it doesn't change the original +/- value of the intial card which was my entire point in the first place.)
 
Yeah, overall Last Will is usually a -1. The reason why it's 1x per deck is cause of flexability, combos, and mostly, because of OTK possibilities. (Not just Stein, but like say Rescue Cat OTK for example, or other forms of OTK that requires a "weak stat" monster)

Kinda like Giant Trunade. That's a -1 card cause you return the s/t on the foe's field. (i.e. you didn't destroy any of them so overall, they didn't lose any cards) The reason why Giant Trunade gotten 2x is cause it's the core support card for OTK decks. -1 card advantage means nothing if you can OTK for game. The similar reason why Ultimate Offering got 1x. (Another OTK option card.)

Overall, I think Konami hates OTK or stall decks. (Both LLAB and Gravity Bind is 1x. And now Wall of Revealing Light is 2x) So IMO, they should put Stein on ban cause that's the most popular OTK at least in TCG right now. (Don't know if OCG uses Stein for OTK as well. They have a better card pool to counter "one random Stein", like say Messenger of Hades - Gors for example.)
 
I think cyber-stein will be reduced to one or two copies, probably the same with cyber dragon. As others have said, if you want to get out cyber twin or cyber end, there are other ways (which frankly, most people would use in preference anyhow...).

I think that gravity bind will be returned to 2 copies, although LLAb will stick at 1 copy.

Oh, and shapesnatch will be increased to 4 copies per deck :D
 
I thought this was a guessing thread not a +1/-1 thread. :) The truth is I have no ideal what they will cut this list. I don't even play enough to know what is good or not. Only heard from other players. I do think they will deal with the Monarch problems either by cutting the tribute fodder or the Monarchs themselves.

Stein has got to have something done about it. Granted it isn't winning tournaments on its own but it is winning games on the first turn killing good players chances. Sometimes you just can't counter it. Either it or Last Will going would help. Exile being restricted again is a possibility to.
 
densetsu_x said:
(Case in point also: My opponent has Mirror Force set and I know he has Mirror Force set. I have 2 monsters on my side of the field. I play Giant Trunade [a -1] but because my monsters will be saved it becomes a +1 play for the turn. But it doesn't change the original +/- value of the intial card which was my entire point in the first place.)
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That's like saying I destroy the Mirror Force with MST and now I got a +2 because I saved both of my monsters and he lost Mirror Force as well for my card. Really strange math you are using.

Your monsters were there before you played Trunade and would have remained there if you hadnt, so there is no +2 for you. That there was/is a threat that could 2:1 you is not card advantage. Field presence is not card advantage either.
If he plays Mirror Force on you with 2 monsters you get -1.
If you play Giant Trunade to evade Mirror Force for the turn you still -1 yourself, so card advantage-vise you dont get anything. That you keep your field presence is another story that has nothing to do with card advantage.

Not to mention that in this particular example he will set Mirror Force next turn anyway so the threat remains. If you have taken it then it would be in the grave and you dont have to contend with it during this duel anymore. Not to mention switching 1 of your monsters to DEF mode.

But to get back to Last Will - you play it and get a monster from your deck.
That's a 1:1. You lose Last Will but get a monster.
How you satisfy the activation condition is irrelevant here.
You could summon your monster and destroy it with Tribute to the Doomed and -3 yourself if you want. Or you just tribute something for a monarch and you lose nothing. How you meet the condition is not card advantage.
 
This pluses and minuses is very interesting. So would it be safe to assume that you get -1, for everytime a spell card is played.

I think I can understand why so many other forums posted Pot of Greed as +1. Does Pot work like this:
-1+2=1

And for Graceful Charity should it be like this (please correct me if I am incorrect):
-1+3-2=0
 
Pretty much, yeah. And in the case of Graceful Charity, that "-2" could turn into a "+2" or even more if you discard Dark World monsters or similar cards that give advantages upon being discarded by a card effect.

I dislike this plus/minus rating thing. They only concern themselves with individual cards, as opposed to combos. Because of this, the system is most often used to describe CC Decks, Decks that contain only singular cards and very few (if any) combos.
 
Maruno said:
Pretty much, yeah. And in the case of Graceful Charity, that "-2" could turn into a "+2" or even more if you discard Dark World monsters or similar cards that give advantages upon being discarded by a card effect.

I dislike this plus/minus rating thing. They only concern themselves with individual cards, as opposed to combos. Because of this, the system is most often used to describe CC Decks, Decks that contain only singular cards and very few (if any) combos.
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How is this (-2)?

-1 (losing the Spell card Graceful)+3(adding three cards)=2
2-2(2 cards being discarded) from hand=0
 
I think the -2 was in reference to the left side of the equation: -1+3(-2)=0. The -2 part could be changed to a +2 if you discarded a Goldd and a Sillva due to their effects. Although then it would be -1+3-2+2=2 or just shortened to -1+3=2 since instead of keeping the cards in-hand they are summoned to the field.
 
plus I think "Graceful Charity" makes to the player think in the other hand "Pot of Greed" noo, that could be another difference that makes "Pot of Greed" "better"
 
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