Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder vs Chain Energy

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That is a great question.

Technically, both costs are scheduled to occur at the same time.

My guess would be that Hamon's cost overides CE's cost, but it's definately a question for the board.
 
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I have to agree with Simon I believe you would have to pay for the CEs. In order to summon Hammon you will have to declare the summon and pay the cost, to declare the summon you will have to pay for the 3 CEs. Thus the CEs are preventing you from attempting to summon unless you pay for them. That to me seems very much like the Rivalry of Warlords situation.
 
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The 2 costs should happen at the same time, it's not one before the other, so you might end up having to fullfill both.

This is different than the Rivalry situation, but albeit similar.

Great question for UDE.
 
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When it comes to paying a cost, can you really pay two costs at the same time. I didn't think the actions could take place simutaneously. I'm inclined to belive you get to choose the order in which to pay.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
When it comes to paying a cost, can you really pay two costs at the same time. I didn't think the actions could take place simutaneously. I'm inclined to belive you get to choose the order in which to pay.
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That's what I was thinking. How can you pay twice? This definitely should be a Judge List question.

Depending on how this is answered there, I see this card getting more play since the chances are you will at least get some damage on your opponent before its destroyed or sent.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
When it comes to paying a cost, can you really pay two costs at the same time. I didn't think the actions could take place simutaneously. I'm inclined to belive you get to choose the order in which to pay.
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That is not what i mean.

Simultanious actions are absolutely possible, and if you wanna be able to choose, then so be it...but that does not change the fact that they are scheduled to be performed during the same timeslot.

Chances are you will not be able to choose, that is not Konami's way, they will choose for you, and make a set ruling as to how this is resolved.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I was just thinking.... If I activate 3 Chain Energy's, would I have to pay 1500 life points to summon Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder AND remove the 3 Chain Energy's, or would the cost of Special Summoning Hamon soley be sending the 3 Chain Energy to the Graveyard?

I guess the question is, the card says you must pay 500 to Special Summon, but when, or "would I" be affected?
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i say that you don't have to pay the costs of the Chain Energy to summon Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder because you will have to send them to the graveyard as a cost to summon the monster.
 
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barty64 said:
i say that you don't have to pay the costs of the Chain Energy to summon Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder because you will have to send them to the graveyard as a cot to special summon the monster.
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But that ignores the fact you have Chain Energy on the field which is in effect stating "You can't perform a summon without paying for it". It is the same logic as Rivalry of Warlords, Rivalry says "You can't declare that you are going to summon another Type of monster while you already have one Type on the field."
In each case the end result would be that the card preventing the summon would be sent to the Grave before the monster is summoned but while they are active on the field they are performing a function that function is controlling the field until they have been sent to the graveyard and that won't happen until after the summon has been declared.

And yes I do realize that this seems odd when contrasted to ruling #7 for Rivalry of Warlords where you can tribute a monster of one Type and summon a monster of a different Type.
 
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The problem is that the Rivalry ruling doesn't address the real issue here.

Now, all things equal, and you have 1500 LP you can pay and 3 Continuous Spell Cards to tribute (that being the 3 CE's)... which cost gets paid? or is it both? This is a case of 2 costs for the same action.

Naturally, if you didn't have the 1500 LP to pay... you might end up with a Rivalry type of situation, but that is not what we are concerned with here, where one cost (or effect) is preventing the summon.

All we wanna know, is which (if not both) of the costs are required to actually be paid, given a situation where all the requirements are met.
 
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Chain Energy','ycard','width=600,height=600'); return false;">Chain Energy

"Chain Energy" applies to any cards played after "Chain Energy" resolves.

"Chain Energy" creates a condition where you pay an Activation cost of 500 Life Points to play a card. A card is defined as played by either putting it on the field through normal means; for example, a Normal Summon/Set, Activating a Spell Card from the hand, Setting a Spell or Trap Card, or activating a discarding effect like "Kuriboh" from the hand.

Cards Set previous to "Chain Energy" do not trigger the 500 Life Point cost.

Cards brought to the field through another effect, like Special Summoning a monster through "Monster Reborn" do not trigger the 500 Life Point cost of "Chain Energy".

"Chain Energy" vs. "Cyber Jar" - "Chain Energy" has no effect on the monsters Special Summoned by the effect of "Cyber Jar".


So, would tributing the 3 Chain Energy Spell Cards be considered part of the Cost Effect, or something else entirely?

I mean, if Gravekeeper's Servant is active, you must pay the cost before you can declare an attack, but does that mean you have to attack? So by paying Hamon's cost to remove 3 Continuous Spell Cards, is that declaring a Summon, or just paying the cost to be able "to" summon?
 
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I'm not comparing it to an attack declaration. Im just comparing it to the fact that you must pay a cost before you can do "something". If that something is an attack, then so be it, but if that something is a Summon, then you cannot perform it until you meet the requirement, which would mean that Chain Energy is no longer on the field.
 
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but if that something is a Summon, then you cannot perform it until you meet the requirement, which would mean that Chain Energy is no longer on the field.
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The problem is that CE's cost is supposed to be paid at the same time as the cost for Hamon.

Also, in your other example, you still have to pay the 500 to play Monster Reborn, in the same fashion you would pay the 800 to play Premature Burial.

The cost is part and parcel with the intent to use the effect or perform the action, which precisely why it doesn't make sense to say that it occurs beforehand. It is just a series of events, but paying cost is at the start of that sequence.

So yes, if you payed the cost for Gravekeeper's Servant, you are declaring an attack and have made the choice (intent). Infact you actually select targets first, then pay cost (just like you are selecting the monster to summon first), but that's a whole other arguement...lets stick to this one.
 
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