Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder vs Chain Energy

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Cost isnt a "Prevention" unless you cannot pay. If I have 1400 life points, or only 2 Continuous Spell Cards on the field, I am prevented from Summoning Hamon, in whatever scenario you agree with concerning Chain Energy.

An "effect" or "condition" prevention is different as it can only be ignored if it is no longer active (or "true"), or does not affect the player due to a conflicting or inhibiting effect.

You cannot Normal Summon or Set Rare Metal Dragon. I am prevented from this action, but I am not prevented from summoning him altogether. I can still Special Summon him.

Chain Energy only prevents a summon under one instance: If you cannot pay 500 per active Chain Energy. It does not tell you that you cannot summon a monster.

Rivalry of Warlords prevents the summon of a monster that is not of the same type as that on your side of the field unless it replaces it, so its effect is only preventing a summon if you have a different type monster in hand and cannot tribute it, otherwise, there is no prevention. So, Rivalry says you cannot summon a different type monster, while Chain Energy says you simply must pay to summon.

I dont think the two are comparative. In one case, I cant summon a monster to remove Rivalry of Warlords because it would mean that I am summoning a different type monster while another one already exist, and the other hand is just saying that in order to play a monster from hand, I must pay as long as Chain Energy is active.
 
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anthonyj said:
But Chain Energy doesn't say "Each player must pay 500 Life Points per card when they Normal Summon, Special Summon, Set or activate cards from his/her respective hand."

It says "Each player must pay 500 Life Points per card to Normal Summon, Special Summon, Set or activate cards from his/her respective hand."

This is paid before you perform the action. It is a gate preventing you from performing the action until you unlock the gate "pay the 500 Life Points".
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You are thinking too far ahead here.

As a general rule in card games, before you can even think of doing anything, requirements have to be in place.

One of those requirements is simply ability to do so (which Jowgen's effect takes away), another is cost (which CE has control over).

So, if you have 1501 LP, and you can meet the cost requirement, before you even decide to anything can you meet both cost requirements? Yes, therefore you can actually go ahead and initiate the action by paying cost.

Now in the case of Jowgen, before ANYTHING is done, can you meet the requirement of being able to Special Summon? No, therefore you can't even initiate the cost, because it is intended to be a Special Summon.

That is how requirements (action or activation) operate, they are checked well ahead of time, before anything is done, to determine whether the door is even open to do what you wanna do.
 
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Not sure if this point was mentioned.

What kind of effects are Chain Energy and Hamon's Special Summoning effect?

I'm going to attempt to prove a point that was earlier made by slither, but he didn't go into detail about it. =/
 
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Going a little bit into detail, im not referring that there is equality in the way cards work, I know that there is a difference, but if we consider masterwoo0's scenario of not being able to pay the cost then a prevention to summon will be administered, being sayed that I go back to my previous post...

There is always something you must (can't find a word for this so i'll say) "comply" with every posible requisite for the summon in this case a paying cost.
 
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Lol, I answered my own question..lol

Just something to think about.

Chain Energy is on the Turn Players' field right? He/She is attempting to summon it right? These two cards create a situation where costs are being paid at the same time, wouldn't this little piece of information that slither mentioned a while ago be valid?

SEGOC. Similar to effects that activate at the same time, such as Sangan and Witch of the Black Forest being sent to the Graveyard from the field at the same time. Costs that initate at the same time and are controlled by the Turn Player should be paid for in the order that the Turn Player decides.

I declare to summon Hamon. By declaring to summon him, you must pay his summoning cost first. This is the time where Solemn Judgment, Horn of Heaven, and Royal Oppression can negate the summoning and destroy him. As Turn Player, you shoud have every right to pay the costs in the order you like.

Someone rip that point of view to pieces please. In all honesty, I'll go with whatever you guys can dish out that makes the most sense and that I can nod my head and agree the most on.
 
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slither said:
Going a little bit into detail, im not referring that there is equality in the way cards work, I know that there is a difference, but if we consider masterwoo0's scenario of not being able to pay the cost then a prevention to summon will be administered, being sayed that I go back to my previous post...

There is always something you must (can't find a word for this so i'll say) "comply" with every posible requisite for the summon in this case a paying cost.
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Ok sure... now lets remove the scenario altogether and focus on a scenario where nothing is preventing this for happening. That removes the Rivalry and Jowgen comparisons completely.

What costs are payed? I can almost gaurantee that Konami will not allow you to actually choose, they will most likely just make the choice for you ahead of time (in the form of a ruling) by saying one cost is payed and the other is not.

I personally believe that it will be Hamon's cost that is payed, and CE's will not be payed.
 
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novastar said:
Ok sure... now lets remove the scenario altogether and focus on a scenario where nothing is preventing this for happening. That removes the Rivalry and Jowgen comparisons completely.

What costs are payed? I can almost gaurantee that Konami will not allow you to actually choose, they will most likely just make the choice for you ahead of time (in the form of a ruling) by saying one cost is payed and the other is not.

I personally believe that it will be Hamon's cost that is payed, and CE's will not be payed.
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It really can go either way, Konami minds just think a lot different than we expect @_@
 
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