Heart of the Underdog & Veil of Darkness

[Dasher]

What will happen if you have Heart of the Underdog and Veil of Darkness active on the field and draw Dark Normal Monster? I assumed that it depends on how you form chain. If you put Veil as Link 1 and Heart as Link 2, you should be able to draw for both and discard for Veil. Is that correct?

And will you be able to activate Heart and Veil again if you draw Dark Normal monster through Veils effect or will you miss the timing?

 

[Entropy]

You can activate both effects, in either order. For both "Heart of the Underdog" and "Veil of Darkness", you show the Normal Monster at activation, and then do everything else at resolution. "Heart of the Underdog" does not require the Normal Monster after activation, so its effect will still resolve, regardless of what happens to the Normal Monster.

If you draw a DARK Normal Monster by the effect on Chain Link 1, then you can activate both effects again. If you draw it by the effect on Chain Link 2, then you miss the timing.

 

[Dasher]

You can activate both effects, in either order. For both "Heart of the Underdog" and "Veil of Darkness", you show the Normal Monster at activation, and then do everything else at resolution. "Heart of the Underdog" does not require the Normal Monster after activation, so its effect will still resolve, regardless of what happens to the Normal Monster.

If you draw a DARK Normal Monster by the effect on Chain Link 1, then you can activate both effects again. If you draw it by the effect on Chain Link 2, then you miss the timing.

Thanks

 

[d34n]

Is revealing the card a cost for Heart of the Underdog's effect? And can you still pay the cost if that card is no longer in your hand? If not, then it will matter which order you activate the effects in.

 

[Digital Jedi]

It's a Trigger Effect. It goes off as soon as you draw a Normal Monster Card. You only reveal it as proof of effect, but it still tiggers. Costs are generally all Ignition Effects, unless something has changed in the last year. (My standard disclaimer.)

 

[Entropy]

Some Trigger Effects, like "Fire Trooper" have costs, although it is rarer.

Revealing it is listed as a cost in the OCG. (It seems a little weird since cost are paid, and "paid" implies that you're giving up something. Here, the only thing you're giving up is private knowledge. But *shrug*.)

For "Veil of Darkness", its cost is revealing the monster. The monster is not sent to the Graveyard until resolution, so:

Link 1: "Veil of Darkness", revealing the DARK Normal Monster
Link 2: "Heart of the Underdog", revealing the same DARK Normal Monster
*resolve*
Link 2: Draw from "Heart of the Underdog"
Link 1: Send the DARK Normal Monster to the Graveyard. Then draw.

The DARK Normal Monster is still in your hand when activating the effect of "Heart of the Underdog", so you can activate the effect.

Now, if something like "Crush Card Virus"* removes the DARK Normal Monster from your hand before you can activate "Heart of the Underdog", then you cannot reveal the monster, so you cannot pay the cost, so you cannot activate "Heart of the Underdog".

*Remember that after "Crush Card Virus" resolves, destroying the drawn monster does not start a Chain. So you draw the DARK Normal Monster, then immediately destroy it, and then you try tot activate "Heart of the Underdog.

 

[d34n]

Thanks, that's what I was getting at.

Although I will admit that I thought sending a card to the grave for Veil of Darkness was part of the cost (it is worded as such), but the rulings say otherwise.