HeartofClearWater+relinquished+magicreflector+mons ter?
- Thread starter kifoghorn
- Start date
HorusMaster
New Member
Normally, if you equip Heart of Clear Water to Relinquished, you would have this-
If your "Relinquished" or "Thousand-Eyes Restrict" is equipped with "Heart of Clear Water" and you use its effect to equip it with a Monster Card whose ATK is 1300 or higher, "Heart of Clear Water" is destroyed.
Then you activate Magic Reflector and it puts a spell counter on Heart of Clear Water, hoping to protect Relinquished. Okay so far.
When you equip it to a monster card with >1300 ATK, Heart of Clear Water would be normally be destroyed but the spell counter protects it- ONCE.
After the spell counter is removed, the monster rechecks itself and finds that the effect of Heart is still active and Relinquished is still equipped with a monster with >1300ATK.
Since Magic Reflector doesn't negate the effect of Heart of Clear Water, it gets destroyed at this point.
If your "Relinquished" or "Thousand-Eyes Restrict" is equipped with "Heart of Clear Water" and you use its effect to equip it with a Monster Card whose ATK is 1300 or higher, "Heart of Clear Water" is destroyed.
Then you activate Magic Reflector and it puts a spell counter on Heart of Clear Water, hoping to protect Relinquished. Okay so far.
When you equip it to a monster card with >1300 ATK, Heart of Clear Water would be normally be destroyed but the spell counter protects it- ONCE.
After the spell counter is removed, the monster rechecks itself and finds that the effect of Heart is still active and Relinquished is still equipped with a monster with >1300ATK.
Since Magic Reflector doesn't negate the effect of Heart of Clear Water, it gets destroyed at this point.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
A monster with >1300 ATK is an illegal target for Heart of Clear Water. Magic Refelctor will not even protect it once, there's no effect trying to destroy it.
It's not an illegal target.
Heart of Clear Water
Equip Spell
If the equipped monster's ATK is 1300 or higher, this card is destroyed. The monster equipped with this card is not destroyed as a result of battle or by the effect of a card that targets the monster. (Damage calculation is applied normally.)
Nothing about, "This card can only be equipped to...".
Heart of Clear Water
Equip Spell
If the equipped monster's ATK is 1300 or higher, this card is destroyed. The monster equipped with this card is not destroyed as a result of battle or by the effect of a card that targets the monster. (Damage calculation is applied normally.)
Nothing about, "This card can only be equipped to...".
HorusMaster
New Member
If Relinquished is equipped with Heart of Clear Water and then Magic Reflector is activated, it puts a spell counter on Heart. Relinquished then equips itself with a monster with >1300 ATK and it sets up a situation where Relinquished rechecks itself. The spell counter is removed and Relinquished rechecks itself again and finds that it is equipped with a monster with >1300 ATK. At that point, Heart of Clear Water is destroyed leaving Relinquished with the equipped monster. It's not an illegal target, just something that ends up wasting two Spell cards due to their effects.
First ruling under Heart of Clear Water reads:
The second question, however, should really stem from whether Heart of Clear Water is continuously checking the ATK of its monster. If that's the case, then that would be the reason the counter, no matter how many you may add, would be successively burned off until Clear Water finally takes the bullet itself.
You may equip this card to a monster with ATK 1300 or greater, but it will be immediately destroyed.
So we know that part is not illegal, whether Relinquished/Thousand-Eyes Restrict are equipped with a monster or not. The second question, however, should really stem from whether Heart of Clear Water is continuously checking the ATK of its monster. If that's the case, then that would be the reason the counter, no matter how many you may add, would be successively burned off until Clear Water finally takes the bullet itself.
"Magic Reflector" won't help "Heart of Clear Water", and not for any of the reasons provided earlier.
"Magic Reflector" cannot protect cards from their own inherent self-destruction. This was explained in the rulings for "Swords of Revealing Light".
There will not be any check, remove counter, check again, remove counter. "Heart of Clear Water" will be destroyed immediately, as DaGuy stated above.
"Magic Reflector" cannot protect cards from their own inherent self-destruction. This was explained in the rulings for "Swords of Revealing Light".
There will not be any check, remove counter, check again, remove counter. "Heart of Clear Water" will be destroyed immediately, as DaGuy stated above.
I thought the same thing too, Simon. But looking over the judges list messages, and reviewing the rulings for Magic Reflector, they all seem to say the same thing. And that's when a card is destroyed because its time has expired or when its maintenance cost is no longer being paid or when a game mechanic destroys it, then those are the only times a "Reflector" Counter won't protect it. Because none of those are an effect.
But look at the ruling for Union Monsters:
If Union Monster can benefit from the counter, then Heart of Clear Water should be no different.
But look at the ruling for Union Monsters:
If you use "Magic Reflector" to place a counter on a Union Monster that is an Equip Card, and the Union Monster would be destroyed instead of the equipped monster, remove the "Magic Reflector" counter from the Union Monster instead, and the Union Monster is not destroyed.
And a Union Monster's self-destruction effect is no different from from either of Heart of Clear Water's self-destruction effects. In fact, I think the fundamental difference here is that Heart of Clear Water is an actual effect, not an expiration or a time out like Swords of Revealing Light, nor failure to pay a maintenance cost like Messenger of Piece, nor a game mechanic like activating a second Field Spell Card with one already active.If Union Monster can benefit from the counter, then Heart of Clear Water should be no different.
It'll "help" it in so far as if you summon Mobius, play Heavy Storm, etc. that it won't be destroyed in that regards. But as Simon already said (repeating what DaGuy said), it would just be destroyed immediately because Magic Reflector doesn't stop inherent Self-Destruction (it has a specific condition it needs to stay on the field, just like Falling Down (needs an Archfiend on the field), Swords of Revealing/Concealing Light (a time condition) or a Field Spell when another one is played (Game Mechanic in this case).
Did you even read what I just posted? :huh How is Heart of Clear Water's self-destruction effect any differnt then a Union Monster's self-destruction effect?
I haven't seen a Union Monster that has a condition placed upon it, it simply destroys itself instead of a monster being destroyed (while equipped), Heart of Clear Water's destruction is a condition that when a monster exceeds 1300 it will be destroyed.
Then I guess I'm the only one seeing an effect here? Because in each of our rulings and each of our Judges List messages, the only times a monster is not saved with a counter is because no effect is involved. I've not heard anything to suggest that either of Heart of Clear Water's effect were conditions.
Bear in mind we're splitting hairs here. I never said Heart of Clear Water wouldn't take the bullet eventually. I just think the counter would take it first.
And before anyone points out DaGuy's post again. He did say that a monster with 1300+ ATK was an illegal target for Heart of Clear Water, which is untrue. And he said that there is no effect involved with Heart of Clear Water, which I also don't see any evidence of. Not picking on DaGuy or anything, just pointing out the facts.
Bear in mind we're splitting hairs here. I never said Heart of Clear Water wouldn't take the bullet eventually. I just think the counter would take it first.
And before anyone points out DaGuy's post again. He did say that a monster with 1300+ ATK was an illegal target for Heart of Clear Water, which is untrue. And he said that there is no effect involved with Heart of Clear Water, which I also don't see any evidence of. Not picking on DaGuy or anything, just pointing out the facts.