Hello? Which step occurs first

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FiendMaster

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my opponent use Creature Swap. I gave him my Pyramid turtle and he gave me his Newdoria. He didn't attack and ended turn.

( on the field, my opponent: Spirit reaper in atk mod, pyramid turtle in atk mode, no S/T. me, just Newdoria)

on my turn, I summoned Breaker. If I atk my Pyramid turtle with Newdoria (they both die at the same time), does Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field first and that could either be Breaker or Spirit Reaper, right? or do I special summon Vampire Lord to myside of the field first before Newdoria destroy any monster?


and can you atk with BLS-envoy first then remove himself?
 
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man, you guys are confusing me. I'm still lost. here's the situation again.

I control my opponent's Newdoria with another monster of mine (Breaker). He controls my Pyramid Turtle thru Creature Swap and another of his monster (Spirit Reaper). I want to use my opponent's Newdoria to attack my Pyramid Turtle, but I don't know if I suicide Newdoria into my Pyramid Turtle, will Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field immediately or will Newdoria waite untill I special summon a zombie and destroy that zombie instead.

:D
 
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(Reviewing the original question)

my opponent use Creature Swap. I gave him my Pyramid Turtle and he gave me his Newdoria. He didn't attack and ended turn.

( on the field, my opponent: Spirit Reaper in atk mod, Pyramid Turtle in atk mode, no S/T. me, just Newdoria)

on my turn, I summoned Breaker. If I atk my Pyramid Turtle with Newdoria (they both die at the same time), does Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field first and that could either be Breaker or Spirit Reaper, right? or do I special summon Vampire Lord to myside of the field first before Newdoria destroy any monster?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Pyramid Turtle becomes chain link 1 as it belongs to the Turn Player and is sent to their graveyard.

Newdoria is chain link 2 as it belongs to the Non-Turn Player and is sent to their graveyard. (besides being a mandatory effect)

Newdoria resolves first and may target either the Turn Player's Breaker the Magical Warrior or the Non-Turn player's Spirit Reaper and destroy one of them.

Turn Player's Pyramid Turtle resolves next and can choose to special summon an approrpriate monster.


Sound right to everyone?
 
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From what was being said, this is how that resolution works:

Newdoria -> Chain Link 1
Pyramid Turtle -> Chain Link 2

Resolution
You get to special something with "Pyramid Turtle" first.
Your opponent then gets to destroy 1 monster on the field (which could include what you just special summoned).

EDIT

See John, you're describing it the way I would figure. Turn player 1st, opponent second. But since others are saying Newdoria is manditory and manditory goes before optional then my opponent would be in Chain Link 1 since that's the manditory effect and mine is optional (Link 2).

So what this means is... let the debate resume. Blarg!
 
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FiendMaster said:
man, you guys are confusing me. I'm still lost. here's the situation again.

I control my opponent's Newdoria with another monster of mine (Breaker). He controls my Pyramid Turtle thru Creature Swap and another of his monster (Spirit Reaper). I want to use my opponent's Newdoria to attack my Pyramid Turtle, but I don't know if I suicide Newdoria into my Pyramid Turtle, will Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field immediately or will Newdoria waite untill I special summon a zombie and destroy that zombie instead.

:D
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WHat everyone is trying to do is determin what order Pyrimid Turtle's and Newdoria's effect go in. Since they both activate at the same time, but only Newdoria's is manditory, but one may or may not target at activation and instead of resolution, then we have to sort this out before we can say for sure what will happen in your example.

EDIT: I hate you guys and your stupid cable modems. :mad:
 
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FiendMaster said:
man, you guys are confusing me. I'm still lost. here's the situation again.

I control my opponent's Newdoria with another monster of mine (Breaker). He controls my Pyramid Turtle thru Creature Swap and another of his monster (Spirit Reaper). I want to use my opponent's Newdoria to attack my Pyramid Turtle, but I don't know if I suicide Newdoria into my Pyramid Turtle, will Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field immediately or will Newdoria waite untill I special summon a zombie and destroy that zombie instead.

:D
Click to expand...
Ok, so let me 'try' to explain what we're debating here now.
"Newdoria"s effect is MANDATORY.
"Pyramid Turtle"s effect is OPTIONAL.

Those are key as to determine which one will resolve 1st and 2nd on the SEGOC chain.

As stated before, this should be the order of things on the chain:
"Turn Player's mandatory effects come first...
Then Non-Turn Player's mandatory effects...
Then Turn Player's optional effects.....
Then Non-Turn Player's optional effects."

If you suicide "Newdoria" into "Pyramid Turtle", this is what happens:

Since both are Graveyard effects, then it is the OWNER that get's that effect. (I think everyone agrees with that) Now, "Newdoria" will be 1st on the chain, since it's mandatory, then "Pyramid Turtle". So, resolve chain in reverse order...."Pyramid Turtle" resolves and you special summon your Zombie monster. "Newdoria" resolves, and your opponent gets to destroy one of your monsters.

What I asked recently was if "Newdoria" chooses target at activation or resolution. If at activation, then your opponent must choose "Breaker" and your newly summoned monster would not be a valid target. If at resolution, then your opponent could choose either "Breaker" OR the newly summoned monster to destroy.

Hope this helps!...lol.
 
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densetsu_x said:
From what was being said, this is how that resolution works:

Newdoria -> Chain Link 1
Pyramid Turtle -> Chain Link 2

Resolution
You get to special something with "Pyramid Turtle" first.
Your opponent then gets to destroy 1 monster on the field (which could include what you just special summoned).

EDIT

See John, you're describing it the way I would figure. Turn player 1st, opponent second. But since others are saying Newdoria is manditory and manditory goes before optional then my opponent would be in Chain Link 1 since that's the manditory effect and mine is optional (Link 2).

So what this means is... let the debate resume. Blarg!
Click to expand...

My bad! Your analysis was right here. I'm at work (gotta stop posting while I'm at work and not thinking straight) I was thinking Madatory effects resolve first not go first on the chain.
 
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John Danker said:
My bad! Your analysis was right here. I'm at work (gotta stop posting while I'm at work and not thinking straight) I was thinking Madatory effects resolve first not go first on the chain.
Click to expand...
Phew!..I was like, woah..wait a minute! Did you just pull a 180 on us? :D
 
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I'm suffering from "Atworkitis" myself, and I am trying to absorb what conclusion we've come to here.

Summoning it all up (without using the chain, cause one of them is correct and one is wrong, as we have an example of both by now...), are we saying that Pyramid Turtle summons a monster, then Newdoria can destroy it, or are we saying that Pyramid Turtle summons a monster after Newdoria either destroys Reaper or Breaker???
 
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densetsu_x said:
Well to answer that... here's the question. Does "Newdoria" target upon activation of its effect?
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Well, I would have to say it selects at activation.

It would be different if it said, "Select 1 monster. When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard as a result of Battle, destroy that monster."
 
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What other card has a sim. effect that activates in the graveyard we can compare to that we know targets?

I searched the Official Judge List forum and achieve, I didn't find any reference to the timing of the targeting.

I'd assume that it targets at activation as well....but assuming always gets me into a boat load of trouble!
 
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Oh the RIDDLES!!! So, are we still undecided as to how this is going to work, or am I the only one who missed it?

It's already a long day for me and its only 1:30pm....
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Oh the RIDDLES!!!
Click to expand...

It seems that searching for similar cards wouldn't work either, as the rulings themselves contradict each-other:

"¢ "Necrovalley" negates any effect that targets a card or cards in the Graveyard. So "Necrovalley" WILL negate the effect of: "¦ "Agido"

"¢ "Agido"'s effect does not target.

So does it target, or not?

Back to the subject "¦

Yomi Ship also had a ruling that says it does NOT target (in capitals like that) So perhaps they are suggesting that the basic assumption is that they do Target, and Yomi Ship is an exception.
 
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Well (hoping this doesnt diverge into a "Yomi Ship" discussion), Yomi Ship doesnt target because it doesnt care what monster destroys it, as it can only destroy THAT monster.

I dont think that could really be considered a targeting effect.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Well (hoping this doesnt diverge into a "Yomi Ship" discussion), Yomi Ship doesnt target because it doesnt care what monster destroys it, as it can only destroy THAT monster.

I dont think that could really be considered a targeting effect.
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken, that's the same logic behind "D. D. Warrior Lady" as well.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Well (hoping this doesnt diverge into a "Yomi Ship" discussion), Yomi Ship doesnt target because it doesnt care what monster destroys it, as it can only destroy THAT monster.

I dont think that could really be considered a targeting effect.
Click to expand...

but, Magic Cylinder, Negate Attack, Trap Hole also can only affect THAT monster but they are considered targetting.
 
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With what? Lack of consistancy? :) I mean it's not like face-down monsters being able to use their effects unless it was printed on the card like the X-Shield Gardna Cards... or wait... The Creator Incarnate can have that or Kaiser Sea Horse and probably Hand of Nephthys but The Creator Incarnate can be Divine Wrath-ed so that makes it an Ignition effect that can be used while he's face down and... um...

What was the point here? Lack of consistancy? Nope, everything makes perfect sense here.
 
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