I wonder, If I use Physical Double
- Thread starter D.M.E.N.
- Start date
Chichiri-Sama
New Member
Well unless there is a point behind it, dont ask, It goes away at the end of the turn and can only be activated during ur opponents turn.
ok here's my point.
scenario
my opponent summons a really powerful monster let's say Cyber End Dragon summoned with Power Bond. I activate Physical Double to summon a copy of CED. With Ultimate Offering already active, I pay 500 life points to tribute the Physical Double token and summon Great Maju Garzett. 16,000 ATK, :dj_eek that's gotta hurt. :dj_grin
scenario
my opponent summons a really powerful monster let's say Cyber End Dragon summoned with Power Bond. I activate Physical Double to summon a copy of CED. With Ultimate Offering already active, I pay 500 life points to tribute the Physical Double token and summon Great Maju Garzett. 16,000 ATK, :dj_eek that's gotta hurt. :dj_grin
Chichiri-Sama
New Member
From what I can tell your scenario should work, but I've known Upper Deck to say otherwise on many subjects such as this. So go with it like that because it doesnt say otherwise anywhere, but dont try in tourny till you are sure
Dillie-O
Council of Heroes
The rulings seem to point to the fact that the Mirage Token uses the current ATK/DEF values and doesn't mirror them. It takes into account ATK/DEF boosts due to equips before and after activation. My assumption would be that if it was just the original ATK of the monster, the equip card rulings wouldnt' be mentioned at all:
"¢ When the targeted monster's Level, Attribute, etc. are changed after "Physical Double" resolves, the stats of the Mirage Token are not changed. When the targeted monster's Level, Attribute, etc., are changed before "Physical Double" resolves, the changed stats are adopted by the Mirage Token.
"¢ If a Field Spell Card was active before resolution of "Physical Double" that applied to the targeted monster, it applies to the original monster and to the Mirage Token. So if a Field Spell Card was increasing ATK by +500, the original would get +500 ATK and the Mirage Token would get an additional +500 ATK, for a +1000 ATK bonus total for the Mirage Token over the printed ATK of the original monster. Likewise, when "A Legendary Ocean" is active, and you activate "Physical Double" targeting a WATER monster, the Mirage Token's Level Stars are 2 fewer than the printed Level Stars of the original targeted monster.
"¢ When the targeted monster's Level, Attribute, etc. are changed after "Physical Double" resolves, the stats of the Mirage Token are not changed. When the targeted monster's Level, Attribute, etc., are changed before "Physical Double" resolves, the changed stats are adopted by the Mirage Token.
"¢ If a Field Spell Card was active before resolution of "Physical Double" that applied to the targeted monster, it applies to the original monster and to the Mirage Token. So if a Field Spell Card was increasing ATK by +500, the original would get +500 ATK and the Mirage Token would get an additional +500 ATK, for a +1000 ATK bonus total for the Mirage Token over the printed ATK of the original monster. Likewise, when "A Legendary Ocean" is active, and you activate "Physical Double" targeting a WATER monster, the Mirage Token's Level Stars are 2 fewer than the printed Level Stars of the original targeted monster.
Physical Double will look a the current stats of the selected monster. It duplicates all the stats regardless of the words "original" or "current" or whatever terminology Konami is using nowadays. If the monster's stats are modified in some way. it duplicates the, modified stats.
So if Physical Double duplicates the stats of a Cyber End Dragon Special Summoned by Power Bond, then the Mirage Token summoned will be a 10 Star, Light, Machine Monster with 8000 ATK and 2800 DEF. If there are any other modifiers in play that affect, say, Machines, then those bonuses will be added onto those stats.
So if Physical Double duplicates the stats of a Cyber End Dragon Special Summoned by Power Bond, then the Mirage Token summoned will be a 10 Star, Light, Machine Monster with 8000 ATK and 2800 DEF. If there are any other modifiers in play that affect, say, Machines, then those bonuses will be added onto those stats.
There's always a pont behind it. If your oppponent decided to ATK then it's not always going to be destroyed. Yor opponent may think that he's suiciding his monster just to get a hit at your Life Points and it may turn out that token's ATK are much higher then his monster.Chichiri-Sama said:
Of course, if the Miraged monster has a higher DEF than ATK, you can Special Summon your Mirage Token in Defence mode to stop your opponent attacking with that monster. Say, for example, The Creator or Giant Soldier of Stone.
The question was not about whether the Mirage Token would take on the original or current ATK/DEF (since we know it would take on the current ATK/DEF (after relevant field modifiers), and then apply any relevant field modifiers to itself, in effect, "again" to get twice the boost (or drain)), but whether the ATK/DEF of Mirage Token would be considered its original ATK/DEF or not. Hence the Great Maju Garzett example.
And we don't know. There are arguments both ways (the ATK/DEF can still be modified afterwards, therefore it is the "original ATK/DEF" against the card doesn't say "original ATK/DEF").
The question was not about whether the Mirage Token would take on the original or current ATK/DEF (since we know it would take on the current ATK/DEF (after relevant field modifiers), and then apply any relevant field modifiers to itself, in effect, "again" to get twice the boost (or drain)), but whether the ATK/DEF of Mirage Token would be considered its original ATK/DEF or not. Hence the Great Maju Garzett example.
And we don't know. There are arguments both ways (the ATK/DEF can still be modified afterwards, therefore it is the "original ATK/DEF" against the card doesn't say "original ATK/DEF").
Yes, the ATK/DEF points are it's original ATK and DEF. The monster token isn't summoned with "0" or "?" and then added onto later. They are summoned with whatever stats they duplicated. Great Maju Garzett would be a 16,0000 ATK/2800 DEF beatstick with Ultimate Offering ti get him out there.
Also you should remember that monster tokens are considered normal monsters so it does not have an effect that is generating the ATK/DEF. I agree with DJ, you can bring out your Ultimate Offering monstrosity of a Great Maju Garzett with 16,000 ATK.
HorusMaster
New Member
anthonyj said:
Plus, your opponent still takes a 4000 hit at the end of his turn for the resolution of Power Bond's effect. OUCH!!!
Alas, I always forget his ATK is the only one modified. It's all good.D.M.E.N. said:
See, i's not that it's the greates combo ever, and certainly isn't easiest to pull of, but it's combos like this that make playing this game worthwhile to me. I'd love to see his face as well. Mybe I'll try and hunt down som Maju's to see if I can put together my old Beat Back Deck.
DarkMagicUser
New Member
I like this thought also. I've never run Great Maju before, but it might be time to try something like this out.
Imagine a "cloning" deck with Great Maju? That could be lots of fun.
Not tourny caliber, but lots of fun.
Imagine a "cloning" deck with Great Maju? That could be lots of fun.
Not tourny caliber, but lots of fun.
Chichiri-Sama
New Member
Oh yea, loads of fun, alot of cards are out there like that. My personal Favorite is Cold Wave, play it at start of main phase 1. Neither you or ur opponet can set or activate magic or traps till ur next turn, just need a big atk or defense monster, and then take out the one they summon, easy LP dmg,
Dillie-O
Council of Heroes
Just think, if you Physical Double their Lava Golem or some other high ball Fire monster, you can use Spiritual Fire Arts before the end phase and burn them for the clone 8^D DNA Transplant in the mix might make for some more tactical nuking fun 8^D