Infinite Loop??
- Thread starter slither
- Start date
Well, you can't perform a loop infinite times, you can demonstrate the loop, then choose a number of times to perform the loop, but it must be a finite number. However, in the loop demonstrated in the original post, the loop becomes an infinite loop upon resolution with no way for the turn player to "turn it off". That kind of loop is illegal.
masterwoo0 said:
Where was this definition acquired? An Infinite Loop has been previously defined by UDE/Konami as one without end. Please direct me to where you are getting information that it is okay to create an Infinite Loop as long as there is something else that will occur to benefit or damage one of the players as I have yet to see anything of the sort.
I'd just like to back a few people up here. Given the initial scenario, "Snatch Steal"s activation would cause an infinite loop, as such it will be deemed an illegal activation and will return to the hand. "Snatch Steal" cannot be used to take an opponent's Machine-Type monster if/when "Cyber Phoenix" is in face-up Attack Position on your side of the field. Sorry.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
My loop isnt "infinite". If 1000 points ends the game, what's "infinite" about that? It doesnt even last past the activation of 2 Spell Cards.anthonyj said:
The only thing I was trying to say is, if you have a loop that does nothing within the loop itself, such as, if I activated Butterfly Dagger - Elma, and just kept destroying it with Gearfried, over and over and over, I'm not advancing the game, if there is no purpose to doing it.
I realize that I am "manually" choosing to do so, and can stop at anytime, but that is still an example of a loop that I could do a infinite amount of times (until a Stall Penalty is called). My Loop is to finish the game, and I dont see where it would be ruled against if I could establish that with the activation of 2 Spell Cards, I could do so, especially if my opponent has no Spell or Trap's Set.
Looks like we're venturing into an area that hasn't been defined . . . yet again.
Okay, we've all been through the instructions that tell us that a card cannot be activated if it will cause an Infinite Loop. But what happens when the very same loop will not be infinite based on the end-of-game rules? We let effects trigger off of each other all the time. as long as there is a conclusion to the bouncing. What happens when we know the effects will stop bouncing, but only because we know the game will ends as a result of it, whereas otherwise it would just keep bouncing?
Okay, we've all been through the instructions that tell us that a card cannot be activated if it will cause an Infinite Loop. But what happens when the very same loop will not be infinite based on the end-of-game rules? We let effects trigger off of each other all the time. as long as there is a conclusion to the bouncing. What happens when we know the effects will stop bouncing, but only because we know the game will ends as a result of it, whereas otherwise it would just keep bouncing?
My insomnia came up with something. If that whole "you can activate it if it would finish the duel" thing works, then:
Player A has Fire Princess and Spell Absorption.
Player B has Mystic Tomato and Pole Postion, and 300 LP left.
Player A equips Fire Princess with Axe of Despair. Its ATK becomes 2300, 1300, 2300, 1300, &c. But, Spell Absorption activates Fire Princess, ending the duel.
...Sorry, but it just seems a little more unreasonable this way.
Anyway, what about this hypothetical situation?
Player A has Cyber Phoenix in ATK mode.
Player B has a Machine-type monster, and a face-down card.
Player A activates Shooting Star Bow - Ceal on Player B's monster.
Player B chains Armored Glass.
<resolve>
Player A activates Snatch Steal on Player B's monster.
<resolve>
Snatch Steal equips onto the monster. Armored Glass prevents any control-switching. Snatch Steal fully resolves, making it a legal move.
The turn ends. Armored Glass's effect ends, causing Snatch Steal to become active, and an infinite loop ensues.
Now...this was caused by a player ending a phase. How do we resolve it?
Player A has Fire Princess and Spell Absorption.
Player B has Mystic Tomato and Pole Postion, and 300 LP left.
Player A equips Fire Princess with Axe of Despair. Its ATK becomes 2300, 1300, 2300, 1300, &c. But, Spell Absorption activates Fire Princess, ending the duel.
...Sorry, but it just seems a little more unreasonable this way.
Anyway, what about this hypothetical situation?
Player A has Cyber Phoenix in ATK mode.
Player B has a Machine-type monster, and a face-down card.
Player A activates Shooting Star Bow - Ceal on Player B's monster.
Player B chains Armored Glass.
<resolve>
Player A activates Snatch Steal on Player B's monster.
<resolve>
Snatch Steal equips onto the monster. Armored Glass prevents any control-switching. Snatch Steal fully resolves, making it a legal move.
The turn ends. Armored Glass's effect ends, causing Snatch Steal to become active, and an infinite loop ensues.
Now...this was caused by a player ending a phase. How do we resolve it?
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
You are only going to get the activation one time for Axe of Despair. After that, she just either becomes affected or unaffected. It isnt a "Equip" and "Unequip" scenario, with multiple activations.
krazykidpsx
New Member
actually there is a way, it is considered a loop but its a loop in which you can chain onto.
as in, it is infinite and can continue but it holds pauses.
its like, I play something, it triggered something, i can chain to the trigger, that chain triggers something else and that one something else and that one something else, but as you can see since they are all triggers you can chain to them, untill they start to resolve and if upon resolution all triggers activate again then again you go through the process.
it is a loop, just not one that the game makes and causes the game to "crash"
the infinite loops that UDe/KOnami are trying to prevent or made a solution to are thouse that the game it self would make of some odd ball reason.
their capable of happening, just with the right set up. Unfortunatly the Solution to this is that the thing causing the loop would get destroyed. While the best solution is to end the game in a draw.
as in, it is infinite and can continue but it holds pauses.
its like, I play something, it triggered something, i can chain to the trigger, that chain triggers something else and that one something else and that one something else, but as you can see since they are all triggers you can chain to them, untill they start to resolve and if upon resolution all triggers activate again then again you go through the process.
it is a loop, just not one that the game makes and causes the game to "crash"
the infinite loops that UDe/KOnami are trying to prevent or made a solution to are thouse that the game it self would make of some odd ball reason.
their capable of happening, just with the right set up. Unfortunatly the Solution to this is that the thing causing the loop would get destroyed. While the best solution is to end the game in a draw.
You are still intentionally starting an 'uncontrollable' infinite loop, The activation of "Axe of Despair" would be considered illegal and would not be allowed.Entropy said:
In this case, "Cyber Phoenix" will be destroyed by Game Mechanic since it is the source of the Infinite Loop.Entropy said:
Soooooo let's talk about this scenario:
P1 -> face-down Cyber Phoenix, face-down Ceasefire, face-down Final Attack Orders.
P2 -> Machine King
P1's Turn: plays Snatch Steal (from hand) on Machine King, chains, Final Attack Orders, chains Ceasfire.
Infinite Loop begins, so what would happen?
P1 -> face-down Cyber Phoenix, face-down Ceasefire, face-down Final Attack Orders.
P2 -> Machine King
P1's Turn: plays Snatch Steal (from hand) on Machine King, chains, Final Attack Orders, chains Ceasfire.
Infinite Loop begins, so what would happen?
Wouldn't the activation of Final Attack Orders be illegal in this case, since it's the card responsible for placing Cyber Phoenix in Attack Position?
Skey...you seem to be saying that the last card activated/to become active is the "source" of the loop. All the Pole Position rulings disagree, where Pole Position can be the first thing activated and still be the origin.
Personally, my theory is that the constant card is the source. By "constant" I mean that in all the scenarios, it's present. Pole Position is present, even though the ATK-boosting Spells and monsters can change.
Snatch Steal can easily be replaced by Falling Down. So, if I'm right, then Cyber Phoenix is the origin
Personally, my theory is that the constant card is the source. By "constant" I mean that in all the scenarios, it's present. Pole Position is present, even though the ATK-boosting Spells and monsters can change.
Snatch Steal can easily be replaced by Falling Down. So, if I'm right, then Cyber Phoenix is the origin
It looks like you may be correct on this one. I have re-read the "Pole Position" rulings and there is not one mention of another card being destroyed by Game Mechanic other than "Pole Position" itself. I will dig a bit deeper and see if I can fully agree or disagree with you...lol.Entropy said:
[edit]Yep, you got me! I was incorrect in my response to your scenario. I have edited it accordingly. Thanks for correcting me Entropy.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
skey23 said:
"Cause/source" might not be the best words:
Pole position is destroyed because it is the one that is switching its focus from one monster to another. It is the card that is looping. The other cards' effects are simply being turned on and off.
I still say that the monster jsut won't switch control.
But if that's not the case, Cyber Pheonix would be the source of the loop, as its effect is focusing on the machine monster, then not focusing on the machine monster, then"¦
I was actually going by the 'original' Judge List post that stated....
"[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So remember: you cannot choose to do anything that would create an infinite loop. If an infinite loop is thrust on you by things you had no control over, then you must destroy the offending card (Pole Position in all of these cases)." [/font]
"[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So remember: you cannot choose to do anything that would create an infinite loop. If an infinite loop is thrust on you by things you had no control over, then you must destroy the offending card (Pole Position in all of these cases)." [/font]