Instant Fusion / Book of Moon

S

SoilentG

CoG iTrader
1) If I use Instant Fusion to fusion summon a valid Fusion Monster, say Reaper on the Nightmare and if I use Book of Moon on it... will it be destroyed by the effect of Instant Fusion in the End Phase? (I think not due to similar ruling on Return from the Different Dimension.)

Also, I know that he is not destroyed by being targeted by Book of Moon since he is not face-up when the targeting resolves.

2) What if he's flipped face-up during the same turn?

3) What if he's flipped face-up during a later turn?
 
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Actually, placing a monster F/D does not make it another Monster. Removing it from the field does (for the most part), but many cards that have restrictions or conditions placed on them will still have them when they are placed F/D and even returned F/U. The Majestic Mechs are a good example of that. We don't have a clear ruling on this, but we do have this:

• Even if "Non-Spellcasting Area" is active, a Fusion Monster that is not an Effect Monster (such as "Flame Swordsman") will still be affected by the restrictions on "Instant Fusion". So it still cannot attack and it is still destroyed at the end of this turn.

This leads me to believe that it becomes inherent, rather than something simply affecting it. I believe it is the same with the fish special summoned by Superancient Deepsea whatsit.
 
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[info]If the Fusion Monster is flipped face-down with "Book of Moon", or removed from play with "Dimensionhole" or "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" or "Different Dimension Gate", the effect is reset and the Fusion Monster does not go back to the Fusion Deck, and is not prohibited from attacking your opponent's Life Points directly[/info]I agree that it's not a different monster, but it's likely the condition will be erased by flipping it face-down based on the Magical Scientist rulings.
 
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what about Return from the Different Dimenion's ruling:

[INFO]• If a monster Special Summoned by this card is flipped face-down before the End Phase, it will not be removed from play during the End Phase. This includes using a monster's effect to flip itself face-down, such as "Guardian Sphinx".
[/INFO]

That would leave me to believe that the Fusion monster wouldn't be destroyed in the End Phase in #2 but am not totally sure... nor am I sure about #3.
 
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When a monster is flipped face-down, it becomes "a monster" instead of "that monster". Most effects and all conditions that target/are on "that monster" will disappear/become useless once "that monster" becomes "a monster" (because it's no longer "that monster").

I believe I'm right when I say it's most effects (exceptions include Nightmare Wheel) and all conditions. There may be exceptions I don't remember offhand, of course, but those exceptions will (or should, rather) make themselves obvious as exceptions.
 
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Yeah, I used to be as sure of that as you were until this post showed up. Notice the discussion Simon and I have. http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/thread/1061957.aspx
This was spawned off of the references to Curtis' rulings about Sakuretsu Armor a few Month's back. stinking thing has me trying to wrap my heasd around the conflicting theories of how, for the puposes of resetting conditions it acts as a new Monster, but with targeting within a chain, it doesn't. My new theory is one of two things:
1. It is not a "new Monster", but conditions can reset.
2. If the flipping down/up happens within a chain, it is not considered so until the chain ends (sort of like in Football-American-the game doesn't stop until the play finishes and the ball stops), then it can be considered a new monster.

This second one does seem to make a little more sense to me, but the wording on the rulings, does say "condition(s) reset" rather than "no longer that monster". Remember the readjusted ruling for Levia-Dragon Daedalus? We used to all say that "when it gets flipped F/D it becomes "a card" no longer "this card." Well, unfortunately, this falls under both 1 & 2 above, because it is being flipped F/D in the middle of a chain, and/or it is not a "new Monster".

Okay, then my brilliant friends (this is what COG is all about)! Help me to find rulings to give us an inkling as to what is happening here. Can we find support the "new Monster" theory? Can we find suppport for the "wait for the chain to resolve" theory? Do we have other ideas? Somehow, the sommoning condition of the Mechs have to be included....I believe there is a legitimate reason/excuse besides BKSS.

**BTW, this is greatly related to this thread, but if I have overstepped my bounds and appear to be highjacking this thread, my sincerest appologies, and please fell free to move it to its own thread. Maybe something entitled "Making sense of flip/flop rulings" or something. 10-Q

Zaph.
 
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you're not overstepping at all... a general concept of how it works is needed... especially in the FD/FU scenario... during the same chain and during the same turn.
 
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hey man i looked up some stuf from OCG and i found this it might help

"From the UDE FAQs for "Swing of Memories"....
UDE FAQ:
If the Normal Monster Special Summoned by “Swing of Memories” is flipped face-down, it will not be destroyed during the End Phase. Even if the Normal Monster is flipped face-up during the same turn, it will not be destroyed during the End Phase."
 
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