Intuition

J

John Danker

Administrator
For those of you who have kids....have there been times when you saw something, your intuition told you to stop your kid, or to pack something, or to send money with them....or some "feeling" that just said, "This is wrong and I'd better check on it"...

Same thing happened this weekend I realized.

Threatening Roar saw some play at the Iowa Regionals just like it did a number of other places. I walked by a couple of matches it was being used it, on both occasions I was on my way somewhere (when it was used)...it was used in response to an attack. Something told me I should have stopped even though I was being summoned by someone else and I should have checked to make sure both players knew that it didn't stop the current attack. Later I saw it being used again in the same scenario and informed the players as both players stopped the current attack.....I'm willing to bet there are plenty of players who assume it stops the current attack when used in response to one <sigh> I've learned to listen to my intuition when it comes to my kids, it appears I need to listen to it when it comes to judging too.
 
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You have to remember though that TP still has priority in draw phase to begin a chain....so if non-TP needs to wait to see if TP wishes to do so before activating Drop Off....which creates a problem with the hand shuffling thing.
 
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In this scenario, the non turn player should state something as soon as the Turn player touches his or her card to be drawn. Because the issue of shuffling one's hand makes the situation messy, to ensure the effect of Drop Off going through, it is essential to declare clearly all intentions at all times.

What this boils down to is communication.

Similarly, with Thunder of Ruler, the non turn player must declare something like "During your Standby Phase..." immediately after the card was drawn. Doing so will prevent any fast paced players from summoning and declaring an attack while the non turn player still hasn't aGreed to leave the Standby Phase.

As for the SPoN, was the card physically placed sideways/underneath the graveyard pile? ALWAYS, always make sure both the GY and RFG pile are CLEARLY separated AND face up.
 
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magnumcyclonex said:
In this scenario, the non turn player should state something as soon as the Turn player touches his or her card to be drawn. Because the issue of shuffling one's hand makes the situation messy, to ensure the effect of Drop Off going through, it is essential to declare clearly all intentions at all times.

What this boils down to is communication.

Similarly, with Thunder of Ruler, the non turn player must declare something like "During your Standby Phase..." immediately after the card was drawn. Doing so will prevent any fast paced players from summoning and declaring an attack while the non turn player still hasn't aGreed to leave the Standby Phase.

As for the SPoN, was the card physically placed sideways/underneath the graveyard pile? ALWAYS, always make sure both the GY and RFG pile are CLEARLY separated AND face up.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I completely disagree with you on this one. It's the turn player's responsability to communicate their intentions to changes phases / steps and the non TP responsability to respond to that intenton. I agree that it would be helpful if non-TP asks, after the TP draws, do you wish to begin a chain?

I don't see there being a "good" solution to the problem of TP shuffling their hand after drawing though....personally, I've always found it to be annoying and rude when a player continually shuffles their hand. I can understand it if there is an effect that causes a random draw or once during the turn....but a continuous shuffle of the hand is only a bad nervous habit or intended to distract the opponent...which I consider to be unsporting conduct as well as rude.
 
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I generally say "if your not doing anything during your Standby Phase..." pause and then wait for them to acknowlege what they plan to do. Also, depending on your deck build, gameplay can slow to way more then 3 minutes per play. Imagin calculating the Damage Inflicted by a Lava Golem, then calculating it next turn for a Nightmare Wheel, then counting turns on a Swords of Revealing Light, and a Swords of Concealing Light, then making sure all End Phase effects resolve properly and amidst all that trying to make sure that your opponent doesn't walk all over you while you add up the scores cause you don't calculat totals very quickly and things can get dragged out a lot longer then expected.
 
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Often the correct place to put your Remove From Play pile is directly to the right of your deck zone. Never place it by your graveyard as the cards can slide together and create doubt and confusion. It's bad enough that sloppy game play creates a lot of it.

Another issue that I'd like to address with intuition is unintentional cheating. There was one situation with a young inexperienced player that had a pile of "extra" cards on the table when I gathered the decks up from both players.

When John and I did deck checks, he deck checked the inexperienced player's deck. He found that his physical deck didn't match up with his deck registration sheet. On top of that, he failed to follow deck construction rules by having three Sakuretsu Armor main decked and one side decked. As a result the kid was border lining a Disqualification - Cheating penalty. When we returned the decks back to the players, John explained to the player what the problem is and gave him a Game Loss. The kid was probably around the age of 13 or 14 -- maybe 15 at most. The kid was panicing and didn't want to be disqualified on the grounds of cheating.

The intuition John and I got was that the kid wasn't aware of the error and was extremely sorry about it. I didn't say anything when John explained the situation and why he was giving him just a Game Loss.

How the kid was reacting and answered John's questions immediately could tell you that the kid wasn't even aware of the error and didn't mean to violate any rules.

Sometimes you have to judge a player's body language and use your intuition in order to make your ruling call.
 
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Which is the unique thing about Yu-Gi-Oh! There are so many players who are just starting out, so many who don't know the rules as well as they should and are teaching those just starting out, so much flip-flopping on rulings, so many new card effects recreating previously existing rulings and so much that has not been defined or explained, that ther are going to be so many more situations where a player just didn't truly know he was doing something worng.
 
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Explaining that deck check in another way...

The kid gave me his deck and side deck, I noticed a pile of cards (face up) that he had on the table as well (looked to be about the same amount of cards that would be in a side deck) I asked the young man for the rest of his cards. He replied that, "Oh these are just extra cards of mine"

I told him that I'd instructed all players to have nothing on the table they didn't need to play their match, to remove all binders, food, soda, etc. He said he didn't have anywhere else to put them (at his side was a box with about 20 deck boxes in it)

I gathered the "extra cards" as well. Upon deck checking him I found he had 3 Sakuretsu Armors in his deck and an additonal 4th Sakuretsu Armor in his side deck that wasn't listed on his deck sheet.....instead he had a Giant Trunade listed ....which happened to be the top card of his "extra" cards.

This obviously bordered on cheating and I was tempted...but knew he was young, he was sitting at the back tables which also told me he was likely inexpereinced. I decided to get his reaction when I confronted him with the situation. Usually when someone is trying to pull a fast one they'll have trouble looking you in the eye (if you ever want to see if someone's bluffing when playing poker....see if they look away and to the left...usually a give away) and they'll stammer....or do something like yawn....drop something....try to stall for time to think....not this kid, he looked me straight in the eye, you could tell he was scared and clueless.

It was fairly apparent he didn't know which end was up. His friend said he usually played traditional format at home and this was his first regional tournament.

As TK said, sometimes you have to just go by gut feeling when you're considering someone's intention.
 
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Also another thing that John mentioned for me to watch out was how the players react when you come over to them and announce that they have a deck check. If they shuffle their deck before you take the decks or if their arms are above or below the table. I've noticed a little of that during the regional.

It seems like each event I'm at has a new experience for me to explore around. Intuition plays an important role in figuring out if someone was trying to stack their deck with key combos when they shuffle their deck before handing it to you for the deck check.

I've been increasingly more aware of how judging isn't always about making the correct and most accurate card ruling you can make, but also involves a little roleplaying and investigative work.

Hopefully the Enemy of Justice event doesn't have a whole lot of problems.
 
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John Danker said:
I'm afraid I completely disagree with you on this one. It's the turn player's responsability to communicate their intentions to changes phases / steps and the non TP responsability to respond to that intenton. I agree that it would be helpful if non-TP asks, after the TP draws, do you wish to begin a chain?

I don't see there being a "good" solution to the problem of TP shuffling their hand after drawing though....personally, I've always found it to be annoying and rude when a player continually shuffles their hand. I can understand it if there is an effect that causes a random draw or once during the turn....but a continuous shuffle of the hand is only a bad nervous habit or intended to distract the opponent...which I consider to be unsporting conduct as well as rude.
Click to expand...

At least we agree that communication between both players is essential to proper gameplay. For the sake of Drop Off or Thunder of Ruler being activated successfully/at the correct moment, the non turn player must initiate the asking of what phase the turn player is in and whether he/she would desire to retain priority to activate any cards during those phase(s). By asking clearly and at the moment after the turn player draws a card, there will be a higher chance that a mess would not occur.

However, I would have to disagree on some of your views regarding shuffling. While some players do continuously shuffle unneccessarily rapidly, many others shuffle because it is a psychological ploy to keep the opponent guessing whether a card being played was just drawn or simply timed right. Furthermore, players never want to reveal any possible dead cards in their hands or any cards waiting to be discarded (e.g. Gold). For some players, the shuffling done by their opponents can be a distraction, but it doesn't have to be. 99% of the gameplay occurs on the field, so there is really no need to think more of the opponent's shuffling, than what it really is, shuffling.
 
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Of course, if a player shuffles QUIETLY it's not a problem, the ones I have issue with are the ones that do so rapidly and LOUDLY....makes me want to ask them if their mother ever taught them any manners.
 
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