It's Time for the Banned list to Go!!!

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Jathro said:
@ Ben: I believe the Structure decks are designed to be a tad under-powered. They simply provide a structure for the player to work with, and then power it up to their liking. They even provide a booklet with suggestions to improve the deck (even if they aren't all that great :rolleyes: ) If they made it highly competitive right out of the box, this would just perpetuate the "same deck syndrome" in the meta.
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I disagree. The reason for "same deck syndrome" is lack of creativity and a desire to win. If you have 5 or 6 different Structure Decks all powerful enough to give a fighting chance against other competitive decks in the meta then you would actually have some variation available. I know from a sales perspective an underpowered Structure means players have to buy more packs in order to get a better deck but honestly Yugioh is at a place where the larger issue is the Structure Decks aren't competitive even with buying the better cards to tweek the deck. The Structure Decks are lucky to be purchased to get canabilized for a handful of good cards and the rest shoved aside as useless.
 
DH2K4 said:
Wasn't that why the Forbidden list started getting cards added, for being 'broken' and being used and abused in nearly everyone's deck, so banning them would encourage people to use different cards and decks.
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Not only that their main reason was that younger kids would have more of a chance to get card like yata, CED, BLS eta. Now their reprinting them or did so mostly everyone has them now.
 
I dont think it was necessarily directed towards younger kids more than it was directed towards Newer Players.

No one wants to be behind the power curve when you are talking about a 3-4 year headstart in some cases. Thats a lot of cards from a lot of sets to obtain. Creating a reprint set lessened the search substantially.

Even though it devalued the "original" prints, to include Unlimited Editions, the overall goal was to bring in and keep as many new players as possible, without putting them at a disadvantage to older players, quite as much.
 
What you think of this new list i made:

I think this is what the list will look like

I. Forbidden Cards

You cannot use these cards in your Deck, Fusion Deck or Side Deck.

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End
Delinquent Duo
Fiber Jar
Graceful Charity
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Magical Scientist
Makyura the Destructor
Monster Reborn
Mystical Space Typhoon
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Raigeki
Ring of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
The Forceful Sentry
Tribe-Infecting Virus
Yata-Garasu


II. Limited Cards

You can ONLY use one of the following cards in the Deck, Fusion Deck & Side Deck combined.

Book of Moon
Book of Taiyou
Brain Control
Butterfly Dagger - Elma
Call of the Haunted
Card Destruction
Ceasefire
Chaos Sorcerer
Confiscation
Cyber Jar
D. D. Assailant
D. D. Survivor
D. D. Warrior Lady
D. D. Warrior
Dark Hole
Dark Magician of Chaos
Deck Devastation Virus
Exchange of the Spirit
Exiled Force
Exodia the Forbidden One
Heavy Storm
Injection Fairy Lily
Jinzo
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
Left Leg of the Forbidden One
Lightning Vortex
Limiter Removal
Mage Power
Magic Cylinder
Magician of Faith
Metamorphosis
Mirage of Nightmare
Mirror Force
Morphing Jar
Mobius the Frost Monarch
Night Assailant
Nobleman of Crossout
Premature Burial
Power Bond
Protector of the Sanctuary
Reckless Greed
Reflect Bounder
Reinforcement of the Army
Right Arm of the Forbidden One
Right Leg of the Forbidden One
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Sangan
Scapegoat
Snatch Steal
Swords of Revealing Light
Thestalos the Firestorm Monarch
Thousand-Eyes Restrict
Torrential Tribute
Tsukuyomi
Twin-Headed Behemoth
United We Stand
Widespread Ruin
Witch of the Black Forest

III. Semi-Limited Cards

You can ONLY use two of the following cards in the Deck, Fusion Deck & Side Deck combined.

Abyss Soldier
Creature Swap
Dust Tornado
Emergency Provisions
Good Goblin Housekeeping
Gravity Bind
Last Turn
Level Limit - Area B
Manticore of Darkness
Upstart Goblin
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Smashing Ground
 
D.D. Survivor???? Smashing Ground???

D.D. Survivor is not even worth consideration. Smashing Ground is good, but not to the point where it needs restriction.

Ban Mystical Space Typhoon??? Not yet. Its being restricted to 1 was enough.

D.D. Warrior... Nope. By virtue of it being a Ultra Rare TP7 card, there arent even going to be that many individuals that have more than one. Overhyped card.

D.D. Assailant... Limit to 2.

D.D. Warrior Lady is already restricted.

Limiting or Restricting the Monarchs is a bit over the top. They are good, but not THAT good to get this kind of attention.

I dont see any card from your list really getting the kind of consideration you have given them with the exception of D.D. Assailant, and I really think it will be limited before restriction.
 
krazykidpsx said:
If anything they should do the same thing that happens in magic. Make it standard, extended, etc...

if there were yugi standard the legal sets would be.

EEN, Cyber, Dark Beggining 2, Dark Revelation 2.

that would be preaty sweet. Then you rotate out.

Dark Beggining 2 leaves and you get. EEN, Cyber, DR2, and SOI.

and keep going. it would be alot of fun and you would oviously see different decks fly around alot often.
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Ack, set "rotation" (a misnomer, since it implies old sets will eventually rotate back in, which isn't the case) is the entire reason I quit magic and went to Yu-Gi-Oh. I just can't stand that every few months, 3 entire sets are simply made worthless in Standard. It also isn't practical in YGO because of the way new sets often reference old cards, I mean, what if somebody wanted to play VWXYZ?
 
daivahataka said:
What I'd really like to see is a list where if you have X you can't have Y, where people have to make choices between the powerful cards...
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I love that idea! Either in addition to the Restricted List or in place of the Banned Part of it, have a group of cards which you are only allowed to use up to 3 (say) of. I suppose having several such groups would just make things too complicated.

But that's a good idea. Doing this would force people to construct a Deck first, and only then look for the few extra cards from the "group" to complement it, instead of the other way around (for the most part).

Or perhaps take the Restricted List, and to each section of it apply a Maximum Withdraw Limit (5 for semi-restricted, 3 for restricted, perhaps).

Whichever way, I think it's a good idea. It forces people to construct Decks cleverly.
 
I've actually dueled with house rules banning certain combos such as: No Magical Scientist if Catapult Turtle is in the deck, No Yata Garasu if using Chaos Emperor Dragon. This was right before the first ban list and it did allow for more use of cards without abuse. Thinking through card interaction and possible combos has always been a shortcoming of Konami. Takahashi I believe creates cards looking at certain other cards instead of considering the entire pool, thus we wind up with Godly combos that must be banned just to keep the game from revolving solely around these broken areas.
 
the pieces got reprinted back in the Duelist packs.

its not every 3 months.

its every 2 years that the whole standard changes completely. The new set is Ravnica so its in its first years. Kamigawa is already a bit over a year old so its going to be pushed out once [Snap][Crackle]and[Pop] get released. :)

but uptill now its 9th edition core, kamigawa block, and ravnica Block with Guildpacts just around the corner. :)

what more can you not want :D
 
krazykidpsx said:
the pieces got reprinted back in the Duelist packs.

its not every 3 months.

its every 2 years that the whole standard changes completely. The new set is Ravnica so its in its first years. Kamigawa is already a bit over a year old so its going to be pushed out once [Snap][Crackle]and[Pop] get released. :)

but uptill now its 9th edition core, kamigawa block, and ravnica Block with Guildpacts just around the corner. :)

what more can you not want :D
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Well, for 1 thing, set rotation would make the game MUCH more expensive to stay competitive in, and a lot of good players would probably leave just because of that. Also, you mention duelist packs. How would those be handled legality wise? What about Starter decks? Structures? Promos? This would also lead to most deck themes not getting played, as support for them is spread out over multiple sets, so the only viable deck types would be themeless variants of control and aggro. As it stands now, the way sets are structured in YGO wouldn't support rotating formats.

I only play casual MtG anymore (you haven't truly played magic until you've been in a 10+ person melee), but I haven't gotten new cards since Betrayers. It just seems that sets don't stay legal long enough to be worth my money...
 
Believe it or not, at my home tournament, this debate has been going on for a few weeks now. I honestly think the problem is that they don't remember/don't know what it was like. I understand UDE has stated that 80% of thier tournaments are still traditional. However, in my meta, we went Advanced at the first week of the first list and never looked back. Now times have changed. When we changed over our tournament was mostly older players. Over the two years players have moved on, gotten married, and for multiple reasons left the game, but lots of new people have come in. They never played under the old Traditional format. I think if they actually played in a tournament or two against a Yata-Chaos deck they'd learn what we've all learned, and could never forget.

Also, Mirage of Nightmare cannot be unbanned. All the currently banned cards should remain banned. I can almost agree with Breaker being banned, but only almost.
 
PerfectZelgadis said:
...but lots of new people have come in. They never played under the old Traditional format. I think if they actually played in a tournament or two against a Yata-Chaos deck they'd learn what we've all learned, and could never forget.

Also, Mirage of Nightmare cannot be unbanned. All the currently banned cards should remain banned. I can almost agree with Breaker being banned, but only almost.
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LOL Can you imagine someone who has NEVER SEEN the effect of Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End and Yata-Garasu combined to pick their bones clean, one peck at a time, because they have never played a Traditional Format or have never played when there WAS no Ban List??

If that wouldnt be enough to make them want to play Advanced forever, I dont know what would!!!

As far as Mirage of Nightmare is concerned, most people never played that card correctly enough before it was banned, which could be one of the reasons why it was as particularly good as it was.

Who wouldnt want to use it if you could "pick" what card you discarded? But, that was not the correct way to play it.

Sure, you had some who were of the majority who did discard as the effect stated, but the numbers who didnt were probably up there as well.

I'd like to see it come back, but, sometimes, the grass does look greener from the other side, and I dont think I would like it as much ONCE it came back!!!
 
It easily could. :D

remember that the sets get released by numbers. well series, 1-4 so far.

if yugi is in series 4 - SOD - EOJ + Themes + Duelist + Reprint sets then you can defently make good decks out of that stuff. Reborn was found in DB1, soldier was found in DR2 etc... :D

then once Series 5 starts rolling around you cut away SOD, etc.. etc... till they start reprinting new stuff and soforth.

dude, your missing out if you havent gotten any ravnica. Personally its one of my most loved sets i have ever come in contact, especially the Guildpact cycle of the set. :D
 
Hmm, that would be the best way to go if they were to do it (by series I mean). There would still be some issues, but it could be done. However, I still don't like it; the arbitrary banning of entire sets of my cards still just doesn't sit well with me...

Yeah, I've heard pretty much nothing but good things about Ravnica. If I could find a Rav Draft or Sealed tourney and had some spare cash I'd check it out...
 
Actually with all the reprinting going on, you wouldnt have to worry, since you could still use the card aslong as it is printed in a more resent state. :D Im using Diabolic Tutor from the old school set instead of reprint. I just dont like white border. :D

Prerelase is on the 21-22, for Guildpact, there will be Ravnica Drafts beign heald there. And main event for Guildpact :D.
 
Enough Of Being Frost

Well I think that it's almost time to make a new banned list limiting the reaper, Don Zaloog, MOBIUS, Bottomless Trap Hole, and even dd assaillant. I think there would be better ways to play if all the most powerful cards are limited to one. And Say goodbye to the Dark Hole again. I like to play every tipe of deck, aqua, fusions, zombies, but on tournament i JUST CANNOT if I don't want to get a kick on teeth... or my ass broken... I don't know how it works on the outher countries but in Italy we have ENOUGH of "DI-NA MOBIUS!! AND THE FROST!!"

GOD BLESS
 
Konami

You forget that Konami is a big store that does not care about the game but about selling cards.

So by banning old cards , Envoy of End , you are forced to buy the new collection and so on.

Konami aims to make you buy all the time new cards , and if for example it had not banned the chaos decks by banning BLS , nobody would ever care to buy Phoenix , and now Cyber Dragons and so on.

It is not about a game it is about Marketing and Sales !!!
 
DragonS said:
You forget that Konami is a big store that does not care about the game but about selling cards.

So by banning old cards , Envoy of End , you are forced to buy the new collection and so on.

Konami aims to make you buy all the time new cards , and if for example it had not banned the chaos decks by banning BLS , nobody would ever care to buy Phoenix , and now Cyber Dragons and so on.

It is not about a game it is about Marketing and Sales !!!
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Chaos Decks were hardly banned. BLS took so long because Konami milked the living crap out of it as long as they could before banned it. The general rule so far is when the Chaos monster gets reprinted in say a Master Collection it will get banned.
 
I tend to agree with your original post about bad planning of the card designers. I play VS which only has 1 banned card in the game and I just started playing Magic which bans 90% of what is in the game. At least I understood going in about Magic. I didn't know getting started about Yugi-oh I found out months in and I thought I was prepared but, something about when the last list came down affected me greatly. I love building decks. And by no means am I the best but when the new list came down it affected all 24 of my Yugi-oh decks and it really @#$%^&* me off. I couldn't help it, as I started trying to rebuild all my decks I just really lost the love for the game. I still have them, still Judge and occasionally play, but saying the banned list keeps the game going didn't apply to me. If anything it sorta drove me out. Now I more enjoy playing VS and Magic. Hopefully, I'll not be too attached to my Magic cards when the axe comes next. The biggest thing I hate about Yugi-oh's marketing was that they made great cards available to everyone thru starter decks and Structure decks and as soon as we all had them purchased and were enjoying them they flipping ban the good stuff like Pot of Greed (from aforementioned decks) and Graceful Charity( which they just rereleased in accompaniment packaging and in reprint sets. I mean honestly how is it an unfair advantage when everyone has the cards? Just makes the game move faster and in many cases allowed you to recover from a debilitating turn. I.E. Heavy Storm and now Dark Hole. Or a nobleman or smashing clearing your field and Heavy clearing your traps, to go back to the old list. What recourse or recouping power do you have? At least in VS you draw 2 cards naturally. It may well be that I'm spoiled but I realy don't get some things on the banned list especially Pot of Greed. Which everyone knew was the best card in the game, 2 for 1 simple as that. Now Konami and Upperdeck bring out Pot of Avarice and want us to be excited, my point is this I would still have played Pot of Avarice if they hadn't banned Pot of Greed. But I don't know how much I'll use any of their cards knowing they run the game the way they do. I just have a sour taste in my mouth about the last banned list I don't mind most things, just the terribly lame explanation that is given to appease us. Like we are a bunch of Monkeys waiting for our bananas. No offense to all the cheaky monkeys on this site lol.

Does Konami know we have options? Different ways to spend our gaming money? I may start playing Inuyasha if they don't oooooooooooooOOOOuii Sometimes I just get burned. LOL Where is the mobilization force? Jason_C get the cannons and load the monkeys. I think it's time for another assault on KONAMI HEADQUARTERS.
 
I've been playing for quite some time now, and I can say that most assuredly, I miss nearly every card that is on the Ban List. But you know what? I've probably learned more about the game and my Deck Building skills because of that.

Most of the Banned cards were pretty simple to build decks around. It was almost as if you couldnt go wrong. While there is never going to be a "replacement" for the cards that were banned, there are always alternative directions you can look at.

No one thought Smashing Ground was worth it when it came out nearly 2 years ago. Now, it's red hot!! That's how the game SHOULD be. Sure you can always have your favorite cards, and I'm pretty sure cards like Griggle and Skull Servant are going to be seeing the Ban List for a while....

Point is, if the game reached a point, which it did, where nearly EVERYONE had the same deck, with the exception of maybe 5 or 6 cards out of 55, what is so exciting about that?

You might as well be playing against yourself in a mirror! All the game was before the ban, was a race to see who could draw out Soldier, or Dragon and Yata first, because you knew EVERYONE had them! And you say that should "keep" people in the game? With no diversity?

Sure, you had 24 Decks. That's a lot. Probably quite a bit of Theme Decks. But out of those 24, how many were Major Event Top 8 Decks? If you just played for fun, that's okay too. The game should still be fun, even if you have to rearrange your Deck List to add new cards for the ones lost.

Anyone who doesnt feel like they are a "Mad Scientist" and always in the Lab creating something new and deadly, has probably reached that point where the game is slowly losing its appeal, and maybe they should take a time out or move on.

Dont blame the Ban List for destroying your creations. You should look at it like a challenge to design something bigger and better that everyone will want a part of... Before it gets banned.
 
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