Jam Breeding Machine and Lava Golem

Digital Jedi

Digital Jedi

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I know, I know. The answer seems obvious. But something has been sticking in my craw now for a while and I figured the best thing to do was to let it all out.

Bottomless Trap Hole will destroy and remove from play Lava Golem when I Special Summon him to my opponent's side of the field. I'm not sure why, being that I'm the one who did the actual Summoning, but I digress. Is it possible that Bottomless Trap Hole is considering the Summon of Lava Golem as my opponents Summon?

Ach! I can't believe that. But on the off chance it is, is it possible to Special Summon him to my opponent's side of the field while I have a face-up Jam Breeding Machine on mine? What if my opponent has Jam on his side of the field? Am I restricted from Special Summoning Lava Golem to his side?

Keep in mind that I never really had a problem understanding the whole 'who summoned what' scenario until I noticed the Lava Golem ruling with regard to Bottomless Trap Hole. And that's really the card ruling that has thrown my whole thinking out of whack. (Well, that and I really want to be able to summon Lava Golem while Jam's on the field, so, throw in some alterior motive in there to boot.:( ) Cards and ruling quoted for your convienience (of course, you could always just click on them :rolleyes: )


Lava Golem:
This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card can only be Special Summoned by Tributing 2 monsters on your opponent's side of the field, and is Special Summoned to your opponent's side of the field. This card inflicts 1000 points of damage to the Life Points of this card's controller during each of his/her Standby Phases. If you Special Summon this monster, you cannot Normal Summon or Set a monster during the same turn.

Bottomless Trap Hole:
When your opponent Normal Summons, Flip Summons, or Special Summons a monster(s) with an ATK of 1500 or more, the monster(s) is destroyed and removed from play.

Jam Breeding Machine:
During each of your Standby Phases, Special Summon 1 "Slime Token" (Aqua-Type/WATER/LEVEL 1/ATK 500/DEF 500) in Attack Position to your side of the field. As long as this card remains face-up on the field, you cannot Normal Summon, Flip Summon or Special Summon any other monster (except Slime Tokens).

FAQ Ruling:
You can Special Summon "Lava Golem" onto your opponent's side of the field and then use "Bottomless Trap Hole" to destroy it (sending 2 of your opponent's monsters to the Graveyard and giving him nothing in return).
 
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These answers are based on the FAQs of Lava Golem, so as a friendly warning, this answer is not official for I do not know myself.

You can Special Summon "Lava Golem" onto your opponent's side of the field and then use "Bottomless Trap Hole" to destroy it (sending 2 of your opponent's monsters to the Graveyard and giving him nothing in return).

Seeing as that's the way the ruling is:

1) You do the tributing of 2 monsters for Lava Golem, to the opponent's side of the field, if it resolves without the summon being negated, it makes it to the field and it's considered that your opponent has summoned it, so yes Bottomless Trap Hole has valid activation.

2.) First Lava Golem is in your hand, so trying to perform the Special Summon in the first place, Jam Breeding Machine will not allow that. The same would be if your opponent controls Jam Breeding Machine if you try to summon Lava Golem.
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
These answers are based on the FAQs of Lava Golem, so as a friendly warning, this answer is not official for I do not know myself.

You can Special Summon "Lava Golem" onto your opponent's side of the field and then use "Bottomless Trap Hole" to destroy it (sending 2 of your opponent's monsters to the Graveyard and giving him nothing in return).

Seeing as that's the way the ruling is:

1) You do the tributing of 2 monsters for Lava Golem, to the opponent's side of the field, if it resolves without the summon being negated, it makes it to the field and it's considered that your opponent has summoned it, so yes Bottomless Trap Hole has valid activation.

2.) First Lava Golem is in your hand, so trying to perform the Special Summon in the first place, Jam Breeding Machine will not allow that. The same would be if your opponent controls Jam Breeding Machine if you try to summon Lava Golem.
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So it's a distinct possibility that if Im running Jam I can't summon Lava Golem or have Lava Golem summoned to my side of the field? Yikes! I never considered it could be both!

All things considered, that wouldn't be all bad if that's true. Makes me play a little more carefully though.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
So it's a distinct possibility that if Im running Jam I can't summon Lava Golem or have Lava Golem summoned to my side of the field? Yikes! I never considered it could be both!

All things considered, that wouldn't be all bad if that's true. Makes me play a little more carefully though.
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You've made some valid points and some really hard questions, when I sat there and thought about it, my brain fried in like 2 seconds.

I believe later in the day, someone will verify with a better answer.

Not sure about my reply, but 70% sure I have it down, 20% possibility I'm missing key points, and 10% of me is hungry. I'm gonna go find some chow. mMmMm Hersheys Chocalate and Strawberry Shortcake Supreme Mix! Yummy :)
 
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densetsu_x said:
...That ruling about if you special summon "Lava Golem" you can then activate "Bottomless Trap Hole" is another one of those that just doesn't fit since it goes against the very text on the card.
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I would think that you could Bottomless Trap Hole the Lava Golem being special summoned to your side of the field by your opponent...he's the one summoning it after all, and BTH doesn't specify "your opponent's side of the field". The current ruling just seems backwards to me.
 
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densetsu_x said:
Yes you could BTH if your opponent is the one who Special Summoned him (and that's the only thing that BTH cares about according to the Card Text).
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That was my take on it. But the other ruling made me wonder if the option to BTH the Golem wasn't mutually exclusive. So, I guess anyone can just up and BTH him...Konami ga sou itterukara!! :rolleyes:
 
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if the monster is summoned on your opponents side it counts as your opponents summon thats why u can use bth on lava golemn
so i believe you can summon golemn when breeding machine is on the field
 
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icecold said:
if the monster is summoned on your opponents side it counts as your opponents summon...
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The last line of Lava Golem's text would contradict you here. "If you Special Summon this monster, you cannot Normal Summon or Set a monster during the same turn."

"You" is the owner of Lava Golem, not the controller. That's why the BTH ruling doesn't make sense. It does not count as you opponent's summon.
 
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Now you see why it's been stuck in my craw for so long. If I had never seen the Lava Golem ruling with reagrd to BTH then I wouldn't even be questioning who summoned him or whether I could with Jam on the field. But that ruling just throws everything I thought about summons into question.

While typing I thought about Ojama Trio suddenly. I remember that the ruling says that if you activate Scapegoat on the same turn as Ojama Trio. Having remembered that, is it possible, like Strke_Ninja sugggested, that the summon is considered to take place for both players? Therefore, regardless of who controls Jam Breeding Machine, niether player can Summon anything to the conrollers side of the field?
 
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Oh yeah one more thing I want to verify, just becasue a monster is Special Summoned during your Standby Phase that doesn't mean you can manually change it's Battle Position once you go into your Main Phase, right?
 
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i was just looking at the issue with bottomless traphole and i think the explaination with Cyber Jar explains it best..... it doesnt matter who activates bottomless traphole after a Cyber Jar flip.... all mosters face up 1500 or over are removed.... so i think it shows why Lava Golem can be remove cause it targets the whole field not just the opponent
 
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ninety7expo said:
i was just looking at the issue with bottomless traphole and i think the explaination with Cyber Jar explains it best..... it doesnt matter who activates bottomless traphole after a Cyber Jar flip.... all mosters face up 1500 or over are removed.... so i think it shows why Lava Golem can be remove cause it targets the whole field not just the opponent
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Bottomless Trap Hole is by no means a field effect. Only your opponents 1500 ATK monsters are destroyed and removed from play with Cyber Jar and Bottomless Trap Hole, not yours.
 
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A person (careful not to say "you") has to be wary of that wording "You" and to whom "You" is referring to don't they?

I like the wording on Kaiser Colosseum. It more clearly defines who "You" is.

Speaking of Kaiser Colosseum, here is an instance where "You" can summon more monsters to your opponent's side of the field but they can't. I've used this in my trample deck a time or two with Ojama tokens. Give them Ojama tokens and play Kaiser Colosseum, then trample the little Ojama tokens and give them more!
 
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Coincidently, I used to run Kaiser Coloseum and Ojama Trio in my old Burn Deck. I used to get that "your" in the text mixed up and think I couldn't Special Summon any monsters to his side of the field if it would gie him more than me. Noe I'm beginning to wonder if I may have been right.
 
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