[JCP-YGO] Rulings Update: Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord - Veil of Darkness

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Rulings Update: Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord - Veil of Darkness
from UDE's Judge Certification Program (YGO)

Judges,
Rulings are being added to the FAQ for the Shonen Jump promotional card "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" and "Veil of Darkness" from Gladiator's Assault.

Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord
JUMP-EN023 (Dragon/Effect)
[After a Counter Trap Card you control negates the activation of an opponent's card(s) or effect(s), you can Special Summon this card from your hand. Then activate the appropriate effects, based on the type of cards negated:
?Spell: Inflict 1500 damage to your opponent.
?Trap: Select and destroy 1 card your opponent controls.
?Effect: Select 1 monster in your Graveyard and Special Summon it.]
"Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" Special Summon effect starts a Chain. After "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" is Special Summoned, its effect(s) start another new Chain.

If the negated effect was Chain Link 2 or higher, you can still activate "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect when the Chain resolves.

If you have 2 or more "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" in your hand when your Counter Trap Card negates your opponent's effect, you can only activate the effect of 1 "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord", even if you negate multiple card effects.

"Royal Oppression" can be used to negate both "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect to Special Summon itself, and its effect to Special Summon a monster from your Graveyard. In both cases, "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" will be destroyed.

"Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect cannot be activated during the Damage Step.

"Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect to destroy 1 card targets the selected card.

When you activate multiple Counter Trap Cards in the same Chain, the last one to resolve and negate an effect will be applied to "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect.
Example: Your opponent activates "Pot of Greed". You chain "Magic Jammer". Your opponent chains "Seven Tools of the Bandit". You chain "Curse of Royal". When the Chain resolves, "Magic Jammer" is your last Counter Trap Card that resolves and negates your opponent's "Pot of Greed", so you will be able to Special Summon "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" and activate its "inflict 1500 damage" effect.

If you activate "Magic Jammer," etc. and discard "Night Assailant" for its activation cost, the effects of "Night Assailant" and "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" will start a new Chain after the Chain that included your "Magic Jammer" resolves. "Night Assailant's" effect will be Chain Link 1 and "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" will be Chain Link 2.

If you draw "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" during the Chain your Counter Trap Card negates the effect of your opponent's card(s), you can activate its effect after the Chain resolves.

If you activate "Magic Drain" and your opponent discards 1 Spell Card, you cannot activate "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect.

"Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord's" effect can be activated when you activate "Goblin Out of the Frying Pan" or "Malfunction" to negate your opponent's Spell or Trap Card.

If you have "Voltanis the Adjunticator" and "Van'dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" in your hand and your Counter Trap Card negates your opponent's card effect, you can Special Summon only 1 of the 2 monsters. You cannot Special Summon both monsters.

If your "Vanity's Call" negates multiple card effects controlled by your opponent, when you Special Summon "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" you will activate each effect appropriate effect. Each effect activated will be added to the Chain, in the order you choose.
Example: "Vanity's Call" negates your opponent's "Destiny Draw" and "Seven Tools of the Bandit". When you Special Summon "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" you will activate its "inflict 1500 damage" and "destroy 1 card" effects. You can choose to have "inflict 1500 damage" be Chain Link 1 and "destroy 1 card" be Chain Link 2, or vice-versa.


Veil of Darkness
GLAS-EN088 (Continuous Spell Card)
[During your Draw Phase, if you draw a DARK monster, you can reveal it and send it to the Graveyard to draw 1 more card.]
Reveal the drawn DARK monster when you activate the effect of "Veil of Darkness". That DARK monster is sent to the Graveyard when the effect is resolved.

You can activate the effect of "Veil of Darkness" when you draw a DARK monster with a card effect during your Draw Phase.

When you draw a DARK monster with the effect of "Veil of Darkness", you can reveal the drawn DARK monster to activate the effect of "Veil of Darkness'" again.

"Veil of Darkness'" effect can only be activated during your own Draw Phase.

You can activate the effect of "Veil of Darkness" while "Macro Cosmos" or "Dimensional Fissure" is active, but because the DARK Monster is removed from play you will not draw a card.


http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/thread/1007125.aspx
 
Well it's a long story, but cutting it short, Voltanis is ruled by Curtis to be Summoned immediately after a Counter Trap Card resolves, in a chain. However, this is Van'Dalgyon's rulings, and it is to be ruled the same way, and yet it is Summoned after the chain.
 
Just going by the card text I could find, but isn't there a slight difference in effect here? In one case, you've got the phrase "After 1 of your Counter Trap Cards has been activated and has resolved", non-standard Trigger Effect wording, and in the other you've got "When a card that your opponent activates is negated by a Counter Trap Card", the typical tell-tale phrasing for triggers.

Looks to me like they were deliberately phrasing the first distinctly from the typical Trigger Effect to demarcate the different effect. Likewise, note that Voltanis' trigger point is right after a Counter Trap resolves. Not so with Van'Dalgyon. It triggers when a card effect is negated by a Counter Trap card, which would be a completely different point on the chain.

Not saying it's fluid logic, but there's enough of a difference here in wording and in effect resolution to understand why there might be a difference in ruling.
 
Konami Japan have had Voltanis and Van'Dalgyon ruled the same way forever, it's us who screwed it up when we tried doing it ourselves =P. Voltanis Triggers in the middle of a chain, which is impossible in this game, but we didn't know that at the time.

Anyway, the point after a Counter Trap resolves, and the point after that same Counter Trap negates an effect are actually one in the same, essentially.
 
Oceanus said:
Anyway, the point after a Counter Trap resolves, and the point after that same Counter Trap negates an effect are actually one in the same, essentially.
Click to expand...

Actually, a Counter Trap resolves in one link on the chain, and then the effect gets negated on its turn in the chain.

Konami Japan have had Voltanis and Van'Dalgyon ruled the same way forever, it's us who screwed it up when we tried doing it ourselves . Voltanis Triggers in the middle of a chain, which is impossible in this game, but we didn't know that at the time.
Click to expand...

When Volatanis came out? Sure we knew that. That's why the ruling made such a big stink. Or are you talking about when he came out in the OCG?
 
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