Jowgen the Spiritualist + Last Turn DOESN'T WORK!

BobDoily

BobDoily

New Member
Okay I finally remembered where I got that idea. And I found the proof. This is from the Official Specific Questions and Answers section.[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/en/faq_card_rulings.aspx?first=I&last=K[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JOWGEN THE SPIRITUALIST[/font]
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While this card is on the field neither player can activate "Scapegoat", "Monster Reborn", "Call of the Haunted", "Magical Hats", "Dedication through Light and Darkness", or any other card that Special Summons a monster.

now here is the exact official text on Last Turn from the Net-rep Card Registry

This card can only be activated during your opponent's turn when your Life Points are 1000 or less. Select 1 monster on your side of the field and send all other cards on the field and in their respective owners' hands to their respective Graveyards. Your opponent must then Special Summon 1 monster from his/her Deck in face-up Attack Position and attack your selected monster. Any Battle Damage from this battle is treated as 0. The player whose monster remains alone on the field at the End Phase of this turn wins the Duel. Any other case results in a DRAW.

please note that this card is a card that Special Summons a monster, and thanks to the previous ruling Last Turn cannot be activated while Jowgen is on the field.
 
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bishop said:
Take it up with the designer then. This isn't exactly something new. It's been this way for over a year, at least, and probably longer if I were to go back and dig up rulings.

The only thing that Last Turn does is create a battle situation right then and there. The rest of the turn will progress as normal once that is completed.
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It's more of a "phase-within-a-phase", as it has Battle Step and Damage Step. Um, yeah...

Last Turn's initial effect, to be clear, sends cards to the graveyard and sets up a time-delay trigger. Then its resolution ends, and you continue on with the chain.

After the whole chain resolves (Last Turn still hasn't done anything but graveyard cards), any triggered effects will activate and resolve, and any other triggered effects will activate and resolve (not likely that you'll have to worry about this). Last Turn can't interrupt any of this.

When there are no more triggered effects, Last Turn special summons a monster from the deck. Then it pauses again, waits for effects to resolve. This is why Dark Magician of Chaos can still get its effect when it is SpeSummed by Last Turn.

After there are no more triggered effects, you begin the battle.
 
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Also keep in mind, this is not originally how it played out. This is an "evolved" ruling (first in JPN).

It seems much more reasonable, considering all of the events that take place when summoning and attacking. The spacing of the events seems like the best option.
 
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But actually it's close enough to the original. The "evolved" ruling is nothing more than a detailed version of the original. Very little has changed over all except some detailed explanation in the middle of it all. Yes, I think it's good that we have this detail. However, it is one more proof that we left the arena of "kid's game" a long time ago.
 
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I actually forgot about weather report. That being said, I still don't get why it was ruled that a whole new phase was created by Last Turn. There is currently nothing in the mechanics of the game that allows for this, nor is there any errta on Last Turn that I can find. Battle phase is still the only place in which the current game mechanics allow battles to take place. Why then is an acception made for Last Turn?

Also. what was the original rulining?
 
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A new phase is not being created here (despite my bad choice of wording before -- corrected now). And, again, just because A does not mean B. Just because you don't see that the mechanics of the game allow something does not mean that a card effect cannot override those mechanics.

Take, for instance, the mechanic (a very fundamental game rule) that you cannot "do" anything prior to drawing a card. But we know that at least one card actually does "do" something prior to drawing a card. The card effect overrides that mechanic. This is YGO after all where nothing ever has to make sense and the continuing trend from certain higher powers is not to fix the game but to make it sound more complicated so that people think that progress toward fixing it is actually being made.

Likewise, there is no errata on Last Turn because none is needed. The effect, in my mind at least, is really straight forward. You stop, battle two monsters, continue on in the turn. It's always been this way. The "evolution" of the ruling didn't change this fundamental manner in which the card is played. It merely clarified how other effects and card interactions worked with the effect of Last Turn. It set up this "floating" effect, of sorts, rather than keeping it straight forward and easy to understand on a 8 year old level. But the basics of the card itself and the way it is played hasn't changed at all.
 
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I think i get it now all i have to do is to activate it in main phase 2 and hope jowgen doesnt get killed before then :)
 
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CerezScypher said:
If Jowgen's OK, why isn't Frozen Soul?
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Jowgen is an effect, frozen soul is a lingering condition. The reason why there's a difference hasn't been properly explained yet but we do know that there is a difference: (See: Spiritualism vs Sonic Jammer and Spiritualism vs Spell Canceller)

But you may chain Last turn to Frozen Soul, to (likely) force a draw.
 
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Bishp said

"A new phase is not being created here (despite my bad choice of wording before -- corrected now). And, again, just because A does not mean B. Just because you don't see that the mechanics of the game allow something does not mean that a card effect cannot override those mechanics."

If this is so, then why Last Turn cannot be activated while frozen soul is active becasue Last Turn includes conducting a battle phase. Also, shouldn't card effects be allowed to override game mechanics only if there is no way for game mechanics to explain who they function?

"Take, for instance, the mechanic (a very fundamental game rule) that you cannot "do" anything prior to drawing a card. But we know that at least one card actually does "do" something prior to drawing a card. The card effect overrides that mechanic. This is YGO after all where nothing ever has to make sense and the continuing trend from certain higher powers is not to fix the game but to make it sound more complicated so that people think that progress toward fixing it is actually being made."

Just wondering, what card is this?
 
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Tonylaudat said:
I actually forgot about Weather Report. That being said, I still don't get why it was ruled that a whole new phase was created by Last Turn. There is currently nothing in the mechanics of the game that allows for this, nor is there any errta on Last Turn that I can find. Battle phase is still the only place in which the current game mechanics allow battles to take place. Why then is an acception made for Last Turn?

Also. what was the original rulining?
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The original way the card was played was to have the entire effect that is written on the card (with the exception of the win condition) resolve during the chain Last Turn was activated in.

In otherwords, all in one Chain Link.

That has been changed, and now the only events that take place during the Link Last Turn resolves in, is the selection of the monster and all other cards being sent to the Graveyard.

The Special Summoning, the battle, and the win condition are now three sort of continuous conditions (effects really) that resolve after the chain resolves, at various points throughout the turn.

All of the events still take place, the only thing that has changed is when they occur.

That is the "evolution" of sorts as to how Last Turn is played.
 
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True. And they still didn't change the functionality of the card. They only made it so that players would have more to argue with a judge about when they finally understood the effect of the card less than they did before. LOL!
 
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bishop said:
True. And they still didn't change the functionality of the card. They only made it so that players would have more to argue with a judge about when they finally understood the effect of the card less than they did before. LOL!
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LOL, but it really is MUCH better to do it this way, even if there is a learning curve.

I've personally always felt that there were far too many events occuring there for it to be cramed all into one chain link.

What they need to do is to finally post some sort of clear Official Ruling on it already... then maybe the arguements would decrease.
 
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chaosruler said:
hey, guys, don't forget Maharaghi does its effect before drawing
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THANK YOU! I knew there was another one. I just couldn't remember which one it was. I remember when these were first mentioned. I had a lot of fun taking them to Kevin. His responses, while not appropriate for repeating in public, were priceless. ;)
 
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