Kinetic Soldier and Limiter Removal

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Alright, first off I just need a quick refresh if this is even legal or not. I'm leaning towards it being illegal.

Player B has a face up Attack Position Mystic Swordsman LV2. Player A has Kinetic Soldier in hand with a Set Limiter Removal. Player A attacks with Kinetic Soldier. During Step 3 in the Damage Step, you calculate damage. Since Kinetic Soldier activates at this point, would it be a legal activation for Player A to activate Limiter Removal after Kinetic Soldier resolves?

I'm just curious about this and like I said I believe that this is an illegal action.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
According to the Damage Step Chart, both effects are activatable during the same part of the Damage Step. You can chain the effects to each other, but you cannot activate them separately.
Damage Step Chart said:
[3] Calculate and apply damage Part 1: "Calculate damage"

The following effects can be activated, form a chain, and
resolve:

>> Trap Cards and Quick-Play Spell Cards that modify ATK or
DEF, including "Limiter Removal" and "Mirror Wall".

>> Effects that negate the activation of a card can be used
in response, such as Counter Trap Cards, and monster effects like "Horus the Black Flame Dragon
LV8" and "Maryokutai".

>> Monster effects that can be activated during the Damage
Step and that modify ATK or DEF, like "Injection Fairy Lily" and "Sanga of
the Thunder".
Click to expand...
If I'm reading that correcty, you should be able to activate "Limiter Removal" and chain "Kinetic Soldier's" effect to it to get the results you're looking for. It doesn't say that one must be activated first and both effects are Spell Speed 2, so you should be able to choose the order of activation.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Kinetic Soldier is a mandatory effect. You don't get the option of activating it or not. So there's no possible way that Kinetic Soldier can chain to Limiter Removal and resolve first.

However, that portion of the Battle Phase chart doesn't say whether or not you can manually create multiple chain blocks in the Damage Step. How I'm seeing is you don't move on out of a Step in the Damage Step until both players agree to progress further to the next correct Step. Which leads me to believe that priority might be a deciding factor in this -- since it appears to be everywhere already.

I'm not saying you're wrong Derek, I'm just trying to understand more about the Damage Step. =/
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Because the point is to optimize the attack power of Kinetic Soldier as much as possible in the Damage Step.

I see a possible second attack value being legal to obtain if you can activate Limiter Removal after Kinetic Soldier activates and resolves. That value is 6700 compared to the 4700 one. The 2000 point difference is rather important and is one of the reasons why I brought this discussion up.

If multiple chain blocks can be created in the Damage Step, then it introduces a large array of various options that we never thought we could have before.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I believe this follows the ruling with IFL and Mirror Wall. Kinetic Solider's effect will always be link 1 on the chain and Limiter will be second. You can't have multiple chains in the damage step.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
blade146 said:
I believe this follows the ruling with IFL and Mirror Wall. Kinetic Solider's effect will always be link 1 on the chain and Limiter will be second. You can't have multiple chains in the damage step.
Click to expand...
I request proof that you can't have multiple chain blocks in the Damage Step. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to. It being the Damage Step isn't a reason.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If you can have multiple chains then this ruling is wrong.

The effect of "Mirror Wall" will reduce "Injection Fairy Lily"'s ATK by half before you decide to use its effect or not. So if you activate its effect, its ATK will be 3200. If 2 copies of "Mirror Wall" are active, its ATK will be 3100.

There was an old discussion on the judges forum that said it didn't matter even if you activated it in the damage step.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I forgot that it was a mandatory trigger efffect. I was thinking of "Injection Fairy Lily" where it's an optional effect. That being the case, "Kinetic Soldier" would have to be link 1 and "Limiter Removal" would be link 2. A blade146 stated, you can activate, chain and resolve a chain, but you cannot start more than one chain block during the Damage Step.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
That ruling doesn't prove anything.

"The effect of "Mirror Wall" will reduce "Injection Fairy Lily"'s ATK by half before you decide to use its effect or not. So if you activate its effect, its ATK will be 3200. If 2 copies of "Mirror Wall" are active, its ATK will be 3100."

The ruling doesn't disprove whether multiple chain blocks are legal or not in the Damage Step. =/
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
No but if you could have multiple chains then you could let IFL's effect resolve then activate mirror wall. We were told you can't do this. I'm looking for that thread right now.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I couldn't find the thread I was talking about. I can't find evidence of it but the damage step is different than the attack step.

When you attack and a chain is formed and then resolved you have the option to start a new chain before entering the damage step. The damage step is a little different. It asks one time and one time only if you want to add effects. After they resolve you go straight to damage caculation. I could be wrong here but that has been the way it was described to me.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Just to back blade up a little bit. Somewhere Kevin had posted that the Damage Step does not share the same luxery of multiple manual activations that the Battle Step has (for example Opponent attacks, I activate Mirror Force, he chains 7 Tools. It resolves. I then activate Waboku).

There is only 1 time in the damage step where you can manually activate cards that can modify ATK and DEF. In the case of Kinetic Soldier, since that is manditory, that will go on chain link 1 before you get the chance to do anything else. So at best you can chain Limiter Removal to it and you'll double the 1350, but you won't get to double the bonus for battling with a Warrior Type.

Injection Fairy Lily is a little different in that it's a multi-trigger effect. However if I am attacking with her, I can activate her effect before my opponent activates Mirror Wall (so only the 400 will be halved). If Mirror Wall is already active, her ATK is already halved by that point in which case I just boost her. Now I coulld conceivable pass on activating her effect and then chain it to the activation of Mirror Wall, but why would I want to?

The only way I could take advantage of something like this is if DNA Surgery is active on the field with "Machine" as the declared type. In the Damage Step, I decide to activate Limiter Removal. To that I chain IFL's effect (since it's Multi-Trigger). As it resolves IFL will get the boost to 3400 and then doubled to 6800. However this is a really wacky, out-there kind of example and not normally to happen in a duel (but still theoretically possible).

The key though is that in this instance, there is only 1 chain and 1 chain only that will let you activate effects and cards to modify ATK/DEF in the Damage Step.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
ygo doc said:
Try reading both these replies on the judge site:

1. http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=3405#3405
2. http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=3501#3501

As stated here, Kinetic Soldier's boost is always first on chain.

You can have multiple chains during Damage Step, but only under extraordinary circumstances.

doc
Click to expand...

Not that extraordinary. Drillroid attacking a face-down monster that has a flip effect, someone attacking an attack position Reflect Bounder. Those are the "other" chains but those are all trigger based (or FLIP based). But there's only 1 chain where you can manually activate effects to modify ATK/DEF and once that chain resolves you cannot activate another.

P.S. Thanks for finding those. I knew we weren't crazy.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Alright, so ygo doc seemed to answer my question a lot better than everyone else; which was if you could manually create multiple chains in the Damage Step.

Thanks everyone for their input. This apparently was something I didn't know. @_@
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Chain "Curse of Aging" to "Kinetic Soldier", discarding a "Night Assailant" (e.g.).

"Night assailant" triggers forcing a second chain to activate during damage calculation.

Chain "Limiter Removal" to "Night Assailant."
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Actually, "Night Assailant" would wait until Sub Step 5 wouldn't it? Since that's where 'most' other effects that activate during the Damage Step wait to activate/resolve in the first place.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top