Last Will Question

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frostmonarch

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If my opponent wanted to negate the summoning of my monster by the effects of Last Will, does he have to negate Last Will at the time of activation of Last Will or can he use something (i.e. solemn judgment) at the time of the summoning of the monster to negate its summon?

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Where do we get a ruling that Royal Oppression could be used to negate the special summon after Last Will has already been resolved? That just doesn't seem to coincide with anything I've read. Certainly Jowgen hitting the field before the effect summons will prevent that monster from being summoned as would The Last Warrior from Another Planet. Those are just acting as blockers to any special summon once they arrive. I just can't see how Royal Oppression could negate the summon, the card that is doing the summoning has already resolved, the monster isn't being summoned through its own effect, what exactly is being negated and how?
 
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I can see where Royal Opression can be used. No one knows for sure that Last Will is going to resolve once it is activated.

When the situation occurs where a Monster can be Special Summoned by it's effect, Royal Oppression must already be face-up at that point (not flipped face-up) and you can then pay 800 life points to negate Last Will's effect since both cards must wait for the Appropriate time to activate.

It's just like activating Ultimate Offering (flipping face-up). Just because it's active, doesn't mean that a monster will ever be summoned by it's effect. You can still chain Solemn Judgment to the Normal or Tribute Summon of a Monster summoned by it's effect.
 
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You can see where it would be a good idea to be able to wait and see if you should need to negate the special summon if it happens? Or you can see any ruling ever that would justify believing that you could? I see it much like trying to use Barrel Behind the Door against Power Bond's damage. The timing just won't allow it.
 
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anthonyj said:
You can see where it would be a good idea to be able to wait and see if you should need to negate the special summon if it happens? Or you can see any ruling ever that would justify believing that you could? I see it much like trying to use Barrel Behind the Door against Power Bond's damage. The timing just won't allow it.
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The problem is, you are thinking that Last Will has already resolved. It hasn't. When Last Will completely resolves, a Monster has been summoned to the field during the turn it was activated. If the turn ends without the effect being triggered, it Disappears.

Until a monster is sent to the Graveyard after Last Will has been activated, you should be able to use the effect of Royal Oppression to negate the actual summon. How can the timing be missed if there was never a summon (Last Will's effect activation and resolution)???

Also, the way Power Bond's effect is written, it's damage is a cost payment that cannot be reflected, much like The Immortal of Thunder and Wall of Revealing Light.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
The problem is, you are thinking that Last Will has already resolved. It hasn't. When Last Will completely resolves, a Monster has been summoned to the field during the turn it was activated. If the turn ends without the effect being triggered, it Disappears.
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I'm afraid your confusing card resolution with effect resolution. Last Will has already resolved and gone to the Graveyard.The lingereing effect of of Last Will is what Special Summons the monster. This effect can't be touched by Royal Oppresion. And I see know that Solemn Judgment coudn't touch it either.

Until a monster is sent to the Graveyard after Last Will has been activated, you should be able to use the effect of Royal Oppression to negate the actual summon. How can the timing be missed if there was never a summon (Last Will's effect activation and resolution)???
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You do miss the timing. Last Will doesn't summon a monster upon its resolution. This would have been the only time Solemn Judgmet or Horn of Heaven could have stopped it. This is the only time Royal Oppression could have stopped it, but unfortunatly there is no summoning occuring yet, so the timing is missed altogether.

Also, the way Power Bond's effect is written, it's damage is a cost payment that cannot be reflected, much like The Immortal of Thunder and Wall of Revealing Light.
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Power Bonds damage is in no way a cost. The reason it can't be Barrel Behind the Door-ed or Trap of Board Eraser-ed is because damage is inflicted in the End Phase, long after Power Bond has resolved and gone to the Graveyard. Barrel and Board can only affect the damage from a card doing damage at the cards resolution. Not at the resolution of a lingering effect.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Also, the way Power Bond's effect is written, it's damage is a cost payment that cannot be reflected, much like The Immortal of Thunder and Wall of Revealing Light.
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Power Bond is effect damage, plain and simple nothing to do with Cost whatsoever. Des Wombat will stop the damage (which wouldn't be the case with a cost).

I do not misunderstand activating and resolving. You activate Last Will and at that point the opponent would have to choose to chain to the activation as Appropriate. If the opponent chooses not to respond to that activation, they don't get later chances to chain to the effect after the chain has resolved. They could certainly respond to the summon once that has happened but you shouldn't be able to use Royal Oppression on the summon for Last Will.
 
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"Negate the Special Summon of a monster(s), and the effect that Special Summoned the monster(s), and destroy both."

"you chain the activation of "Royal Oppression"'s effect to the activation of the Spell, Trap, or Monster Card's effect, and negate the effect."

Seems pretty clear to me that you can chain Royal Oppression at both Card Activation and Effect Activation (when it Triggers). It has nothing to do with "responding".
 
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daivahataka said:
The initial activation or the activation of the effect? As even if Jowgen is on the field when the card is activated there is the possibility he won't be when the effect is triggered.
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That is a good question, the only way i could see Last Will still Triggering is if the activation is forced and mandatory.

I'll dig a little more.
 
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novastar said:
"Negate the Special Summon of a monster(s), and the effect that Special Summoned the monster(s), and destroy both."

"you chain the activation of "Royal Oppression"'s effect to the activation of the Spell, Trap, or Monster Card's effect, and negate the effect."

Seems pretty clear to me that you can chain Royal Oppression at both Card Activation and Effect Activation (when it Triggers). It has nothing to do with "responding".
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The first ruling for Royal Oppression states "In the first case, you chain the activation of "Royal Oppression"'s effect to the activation of the Spell, Trap, or Monster Card's effect, and negate the effect." That would be to the activation of Last Will, not to the effect kicking in somewhere later in the round. If allowed to resolve the state is left to summon a monster but the effect can't be negated. It could be blocked as previously mentioned, but the mechanics for Royal Oppression don't allow negation of a lingering effect that is kicking in. I'm still pretty sure that Last Will's actual summon would be a non-chainable event.
 
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Not trying to create an argument, as this is all informative in nature, but any time you start a sentence with, "I'm pretty sure", that means there's room for doubt.

You wouldnt want someone telling you that "They're pretty sure they mailed out your Cybernetic Revolution Box", would you???
 
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To clarify I'm "pretty sure" as we have not seen anything official, that the summon for Last Will is not a "chainable" event. My opinion on that matter notwithstanding the current discussion is about the ability to negate the special summon of a monster that is occuring because of an outside effect via spell card. As the previous hard evidence we have been given regarding negating a special summon through the use of Royal Oppression only includes chaining to the activation of the spell card itself I believe it would be reasonable to assume that the weight of evidence supports this viewpoint.

Until we are provided by an actual "official ruling" on the matter I would point to such evidence as Wave-Motion Cannon needing to be negated at activation of the card, not when sent to the graveyard for its effect. Previous "Official Rulings" on Royal Oppression stating the spell or trap card must be chained to at activation to negate the summon. The Power Bond ruling regarding not being able to use Barrel Behind the Door because the damage effect happens later in the round and thus is not eligible to be redirected.

If you have related rulings to point to that support another opinion I am most happy to have them provided.
 
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Dillie-O said:
A couple things potentially to add to buffer the argument that Last Will's state is continuous are the rulings currently for Last Will that both Imperial Order and Spell Canceller cannot negate the summoning ability of Last Will if they are brought to the field after Last Will was successfully activated.
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The "state" itself is might be continuous-like, but don't get confused... the state is similar to Waboku or Final Countdown.

It is still a Triggered activation when the event occurs.
 
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If "Last Will's" state is triggered during the Battle Phase by your monster being sent to your Graveyard, you resolve "Last Will's" effect at that time (just like "Giant Rat") and the newly Summoned monster can attack before Main Phase 2.
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That ruling specifically states that the process is performed exactly as the elemental searchers, which we know are Triggers and create Chain Links.
 
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