Let's Work On It Together

Digital Jedi

Administrator
Staff member
Alright Guys and Gals, Ladies and Gentlemen, Brothers and Sisters, Peoples and Peepettes. This is a very, very rough first draft of the Chain Flow Chart I've been wanting to work on for Yu-Gi-Oh! I think if we work together to iron out the kinks we can have, not just the only YGO Flow Chart ever made, but the most comprehensive and easy to understand.

I'm also working on another chart explaining lingering effects and conditions, but I'm defaulting to novastar's expertise with that one. I'll post it here when we have a first draft worked up.

Remember, this is a first draft, so I'm certain I may have missed some things or referred to things inaccurately. This is why I'm posting here, so that you guy can help me work out the kinks. Thanks.

**Working on new chart***
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Turn Player actions are red. Opponent actions are blue. Effect resolutions and placements are green. And a few other changes.

FlowChart2.jpg
 
Ack! Actually I did switch them originally. But then when I switched balloons I dragged the connectors with them and reconnected them to the new spots without thinking.
 
I haven't forgotten about this. Just took some time away from it since we didn't seem to have clear instruction on certain things. I haven't made any changes since this version. What do you see that we can add or modify to make things clearer?

FlowChart2.jpg
 
I never got to finish with you guys, and it clearly needs some updates. But I thought it would be nice to start this up again, get some discussion going and refine the idea. This is something no other site has, and I think it would deserve a spot in the Articles and Guides once completed.

First post has been updated with the most recent version we had worked on. Still missing some things though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not sure about something (I do remember a very looooooong discussion about it though, never saw the final outcome though), about "consecutive" passes, if I remember correctly consecutive passes (as many argued) did not constitute a step advance, since a pass -> pass, gave turn player command once again to add something to the chain... so both players had to "agree" on the game continuance, so what was the final verdict in that?

It was a long time ago and I haven't had the chance to be in between a similar case as of yet, so I don't distinctly remember what happened.
 
I would help if I could, but all this just comes naturally when I am playing.
To see it all written down like that, confuses me & I don't get it.
Maybe (& I think I am) one of those types of people who learn through experience & learn absolutely nothing when I read it, see it or hear it.
Maybe this is why I failed at school..perhaps this is why I cant learn Magic without playing it...yada...
 
Thats really cool i kinda like this site better than pojo lol. at least its full of some smart people. :ninja:

Thanks, Shinobi & welcome to the City of Gamers. I cant take credit for being smart though. I leave that all up to DJ, Dillie-O, Maruno et al. =)
Take your time & familiarise yourself with this great site. Its a little quiet atm, but we have our moments.
 
Necro- I think you are a Kinesthetic Learner. Learn best by doing.

Slither- The latest is that once you double pass on something that has a window, or a definative Step you must go to after a sub-step, that something is over.

Some examples: You both agree to enter the Main phase. You have priority to Summon, Play SS1, attampt to End Pahse. You summon, then pass on your priority to negate your Summon. Opponent passes (Neither can negate the Summon anymore, window closed). You pass on your response to the Successful Summon. Your opponent passes (response Window is now closed). You (TP) can now activate a SS1 Spell Card, end MP1, or whatever. However, at this point, if you choose to pass and your opponent passes back. You do not, then, imediately End MP1. You have a choice to go to your Battle Phase or End Phase. However, you, the TP Must do something now; either activate something or attempt to End MP1 (This will become clearer when we look at the end Phase).

You attempt to enter your Battle Phase. NTP agrees (you still cannot attack yet....). You pass on activating anything for the Start Step. Opponent Passes. You must now either activate something or attempt to move to Battle Step (or End Step of the Battle Phase if you do not want to Battle). You do not automatically end the Start Step; also you may activate and resolve several chains during this Step. If you Enter your Battle Step you can either activate an effect/pass (but who ever passes? Multiple chains can form here as well), attempt to end Battle Step, or declare an attack. If you declare an attack there is an attack Response Window (sub-step) that a double pass will miss.

Once that is cleared, you enter the (pre-Damage Step) Battle Response (sub-step) in which you also can have multiple chains which can activate and resolve like the Start Step; However, unlike the Start Step, where you have an option of where to go after a double Pass you do not have an option of where to go next. If you double pass during the Battle Response (sub-step) you move right into the next full step: The Damage Step. Pretty much everything within this Step has a Response Window with double passes missing all oportunity. When that Step is over, you are back in your (post-Start Step) Battle Phase and TP has Priority to activate something or declare another Attack.

Overall, it appears that sub-steps miss on double-passes, but full steps do not. I believe that this is because of the fact that you have choices as to what the next Step is that you will move into. This is especially true with whole phases.

For instance, let's say that in the End Phase you and your opponent have several things attempting to resolve. You want your opponent to resolve his first, so you pass. He does not want to, so he passes back. Now you are stuck. You have to resolve something. Now that you have, whose turn is it to resolve something? Not his!! You are the Turn Player. You go frist. You can try to pass, but if he passes back, you must do something. He can wait until all your effects waiting to resolve are spent before he has to resolve even one of his effects (the exception being those one or two cards--oneof these days I will look them up--that require them to be the absolute last thing to go off. Everything else, whether it says begining, during or whatever happens when you decide at some point in the End Phase).

Now, I know I covered more than just the Battle Phase, but I felt it was important to get the whole feel of the thing. So, if moving out of a phase, a double pass won't force you out. If moving from a Step, where you have options as to where to go next, it won't force you out of that Step. However, in sub-steps a double pass will force you to the next (sub-) Step.

Anyway, this was the latest I have. We may get more stringent rulings that state that even a double-pass in the Steps will Force you to move to either the next Step, or end the Phase. However, if they have come up with that, I have not heard of it, yet.
 
I think the very first thing we need to do, or at least, the very first thing I would like to clarify is our starting point. Right now I have it as a "New Game Phase is Entered, Turn Player Summons a Monster or an Attack is Declared."


The template I was going after was the Chain Zone Flow Chart Thing11 put together.

vschain3tm.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's an alternative starting point that I think covers all bases:

"Begin Game Phase, TP Summons a Monster, Declares an Attack or an Effect is Triggered."


I notice I never switched the balloons on Mandatory and Optional. I'll fix that in the next draft.

Also, it seems there are actually rules to follow when making Flow Charts. The example Thing11 made is a Data Flow Chart, and follows different templating then a Flow Chart. It appears I was trying to combine the two.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just an quick thought... but wouldn't the "beginning" only involve "Entering a New Phase" since a summon is declared in a MP and even before it you can activate anything else... an attack is made during a BP and even then you could activate anything before it as well... meh just a thought...

DLoC: thanks, I thought that's how it should be.
 
Sounds good, only problem would be when one tries to clear out what Turn Player can do in each individual Phase, for instance: Draw a Card, Summon a Monster, Decide to End his Turn, Attack, etc...
 
Back
Top