Level Limit Area A - Lockdown or no?

Dillie-O

Dillie-O

Council of Heroes
Hey all,

This came up in the tactics thread over this card, so I wanted to move it here for further discussion.

Level Limit - Area A
Continuous Trap

All face-up Level 3 or lower monsters on the field are changed to Attack Position and remain in Attack Position while this card is active.

So does the "remain" portion of this text prevent you from manually changing Dream Clown into defense position once its been put into attack position?

I know LLAB allows for a manual position change, to which it would immediately go back to defense position, but LLAA seems to me to have an added restriction placed onit?

Help please. 8^D
 
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novastar said:
It works exactly like Final Attack Orders as well as LLAA.

Whenever an effect states "battle positions cannot be changed" it is always refering to manual changes, unless it specifically states "by card effect" or somthing to that effect.
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In the case of Final Attack Order, there is no question that they mean you cannot make a manual change. And the ruling for LLAB vs Final Attack Orders shows that one affects the other, so there again is no question that a monster can still be changed by effects.

What I beg to differ on is, there is absolutely no reason, or even the simple "Because Konami Says So" to be used here, for why they couldnt make it known whether or not an effect is the only way to change the Battle Position.

The only precedence is for cards that already say so in their text that you CANNOT change. There is no precedence for the ambiguous text of "you can".
 
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I see no reason why this should act any differently than any other card effect that puts monsters in a stated battle postion. As novastar stated, able to change positon by effect, just not manually. This is likely why no additonal rulings were included stating anything otherwise. It's standard practice....at least as far as standard practice goes for Yugioh anyway.
 
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Okay.... Maybe Im the only one that cant find the phantom ruling that says a monster can't be manually changed only to return to its position according to the Continuous Effect.

Isn't the statement "Cannot change Battle Position" pretty standard? If it is, then why is it not included on either ruling for LLAA or LLAB??
 
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I think you misunderstood. And Im not trying to start anything more than a debate here, so I dont see it being resolved at this level to my satisfaction.

There isnt a clear ruling for or against. Just opinion based on cards that already include a text that is not in dispute.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I think you misunderstood. And Im not trying to start anything more than a debate here, so I dont see it being resolved at this level to my satisfaction.

There isnt a clear ruling for or against. Just opinion based on cards that already include a text that is not in dispute.
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As judges, that how we're told to make rulings when there is not a written ruling on the books. It would be silly to put the text in every monster card of, "This card cannot manually change battle postions in the end phase." It's not written on every monster because it's not needed, we already know that it can't do so because it's noted in other rulings. If a monster card has a an effect that triggers in the middle of a chain we know that it's effect will insert itself into the middle of a resolving chain. There are other such monster cards that do the same but written rulings don't exist, we base the ruling from other sim. cards (Berserk Gorilla)

Granted, there DOES seem to always be exception(s) to the rule in this game in paticular. It's a good money bet though, that basing rulings off of sim. card effects will net the correct answer.
 
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John Danker said:
As judges, that how we're told to make rulings when there is not a written ruling on the books. It would be silly to put the text in every monster card of, "This card cannot manually change battle postions in the end phase." It's not written on every monster because it's not needed, we already know that it can't do so because it's noted in other rulings. If a monster card has a an effect that triggers in the middle of a chain we know that it's effect will insert itself into the middle of a resolving chain. There are other such monster cards that do the same but written rulings don't exist, we base the ruling from other sim. cards (Berserk Gorilla)

Granted, there DOES seem to always be exception(s) to the rule in this game in paticular. It's a good money bet though, that basing rulings off of sim. card effects will net the correct answer.
Click to expand...

We see eye to eye on that "it's silly to list on every card", but in reality, they still list it on cards that are relatively new (Swords of Concealing Light, FET; Goblin Elite Attack Force, CRV; Indomitable Fighter Lei Lei, CRV), so it would be presumptuous to "always" assume that a card works exactly like a similar one that may be 6 or 7 sets removed. And, I believe that there are some "Battle Position Cannot Change" cards in Shadow of Infinity, that are identical to the Goblin Attack Force thru Indomitable Fighter Lei Lei type.
 
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djp952 said:
Of course, YGO English card text is frequently mistranslated, and if you look at some of the unofficial translations of EEN-JP060, there is no such "remains" clause. I would also like to see what the JERP has to say, but alas, I don't speak Japanese.
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The text for both cards are as same as they can be without making their effects equal.
 
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novastar said:
You mean this ruling?

"All Level 4 or higher monsters face-up on the field after "Level Limit - Area B" resolves will be in Defense Position. You can change the Battle Position of a Level 4 or higher monster, but it will immediately be changed back to Defense Position because of "Level Limit - Area B"'s effect."

lol, that does not prove you can manually change the Battle Position.

If you can show me a Judge's List quote that specifically states what you are saying, then i interpret this to mean mean "effect change". The reason for the text change is because the previous wording is slightly misleading.

Being able to manually change them is completey inconsistant with it being a Continuous Effect.
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Here ya go...

It may have taken forever, but I got it!! lmao


Crass Clown and Level Limit - Area B 2006-05-02 13:14:00 <Roy>


Crass Clown
When this card is changed from Defense Position to Attack Position, return =
1 monster on your opponent's side of the field to the owner's hand.

Level Limit - Area B
All face-up Level 4 or higher monsters on the field are changed to Defense
Position and remain in Defense Position as long as this card is active.



if Crass Clown is on the field, and changed to attack position (can it be
changed to attack position) does its effect go off when Level Limit- Area B
switches back to defense postion?

Thanks

-----------------------------------
ANSWER:

"Level Limit - Area B" does not prevent manual Battle Position changes.
It's Continuous Effect will change any Level 4 or higher monster that is in Attack Position to Defense Position whenever possible.

So it works like this.
You manually change "Crass Clown" to attack position.
Its effect Triggers.
It is changed back to "Defense Position".
Either player may chain to "Crass Clown's" Trigger Effect, then resolve the chain.


Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
 
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Well, now its Level Limit A's turn :p

-----------------------------------------------

Greetings,

The two level limits have very similar text, but a slight difference in that
LLAA
indicates that the monsters "remain" in attack position.

LLAB has a ruling that "All Level 4 or higher monsters face-up on the field
after
"Level Limit - Area B" resolves will be in Defense Position. You can change the
Battle Position of a Level 4 or higher monster, but it will immediately be
changed back to Defense Position because of "Level Limit - Area B"'s effect"

We are all in agreement that both cards cannot prevent the change of battle
position due to a card effect (such as Otohime or Enemy Controller) but do
these
cards allow for manual battle position changes?

There isn't any ruling about LLAA along these lines and the ruling above for
LLAB
seems a little vague as to manual position changes.

Thanks in advance!

- Sean

-----------------------------------------------

You can manually change the position of any of your monsters while either of the
"Level Limit" cards are on the field.
If the Level of the monster is within the range of the Continuous Effect of
either "Level Limit - Area A" or "Area B", then your monster will immediately be
changed back to appropriate position.


Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
 
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