LJM and Mystic Swordsman LV4

[SoilentG]

if Legendary Jujitsu Master is face-down and Mystic Swordsman LV4 attacks him... is LV4 spun to the top of the deck?

 

[EmeraldDragon]

I see no reason why he shouldnt be bounced. Theres nothing that specifically goes against that theory so bounce the pipsqueak to your hearts content.


PS happy new year. This is the first question answered for 2008.

 

[Entropy]

No it won't. The cards didn't battle, so LJM's effect wouldn't activate.

 

[HorusMaster]

The answer is found in the rulings.

If this card attacks a face-down Defense Position monster, destroy the monster immediately with this card's effect without flipping it face-up or applying damage calculation.

Swordsman stays on the field because LJM never gets flipped.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

The point here is never try to answer questions after drinking rum. It doesnt help the cognitive process.

 

[Digital Jedi]

The point here is never try to answer questions after drinking rum. It doesnt help the cognitive process.

Says you -_-()

 

[cuzwbd]

The point here is never try to answer questions after drinking rum. It doesnt help the cognitive process.

so what does? absinthe?:sick:

 

[SoilentG]

No it won't. The cards didn't battle, so LJM's effect wouldn't activate.

not sure I agree... if you look at the Battle Phase steps here:

http://www.cogonline.net/threads.6503

you'll see that Mystic Swordsman LV4's effect is in the Damage Step. So the Damage Step has begun and even though there is no damage calculation, the Damage Step must end and LJM's effect activates at the end of the Damage Step.

Also, if you read this ruling on LJM from RONIN™

• If "Legendary Jujitsu Master" is destroyed, removed from play, or flipped face-down by the effect of the monster he battles with, "Legendary Jujitsu Master"'s effect is still applied and the monster is returned to the top of the Deck.

Then I would say his effect still goes through. However, the ruling doesn't specify that it applies if he's face down... and his effect only specifies defense position... this is where I'm still not sure.

Can anyone give a clearer explanation of why LJM's effect doesn't (or does) activate?

 

[Chillout1984]

Mystic Swordsman 4 destroys the card while it's still face-down, so that means his effect activates in sub-step 1 of the damage step, but that isn't an issue in your question. The thing is, face-down monsters have no effect (with a few exceptions like the Gardna family), so LJM's effect doesn't activate because he has never been flipped face-up during the battle.

 

[Entropy]

Battle = Damage Calculation. There was no damage calculation, so LJM's effect doesn't activate.

 

[skey23]

As Entropy pointed out, the term 'battle' has been defined as entering into Damage Calculation. If you do not enter into Damage Calculation, then you are not considered to have 'battled' for those effects that require you to.

If your Defense Position "Chainsaw Insect" is attacked by "Drillroid", damage calculation is not conducted, so "Chainsaw Insect" did not "battle" and its effect will not activate.

 

[SoilentG]

thank you both for the clarification. I didn't know that "battles" = "entering into Damage Calculation" as I always thought that "battles" = "enters Damage Step". Noted.