Loops and the Infinity Rule

L

luffy

New Member
This is a direct quotation from the VS Comprehensive Rules:

704.1 Sometimes players can achieve a game state in which a certain set of actions could be repeated indefinitely. This section deals with getting past such "loops."

704.1a If a game state occurs such that there exists a loop of repeated actions with one or more optional actions involved, first the loop must be demonstrated. Then the player that performed the first action in this loop must choose a number of times he or she desires to repeat that loop. Then, starting with the next player clockwise from him or her, any player that performed an action in this loop may choose a smaller number. The smallest number chosen is the number of times the loop repeats. The player who chose the smallest number gets priority after the loop is done repeating. The next action taken can't be the action that would continue the loop.

704.1b A player may interrupt the loop after some iteration, or partway through one, with an action that would stop the loop from being able to continue in the demonstrated form. If this occurs, that stops the loop at that point, without it continuing for the full chosen number of iterations, and play proceeds from there.

704.2 Players may not choose "infinite" for any numeric values in the game.

704.3 If a succession of game states occurs in which mandatory actions form a loop that neither player is willing and able to break, the game is a draw.


Can anyone give me an example to illustrate this. I do not seem to get the 'loop' thing.
 
The best example of a 'voluntary' loop of two players would be if two players control Mephisto, Soulstealer (Effect: Reveal an Underworld character card -> Remove any number of target character cards in a KO'd pile from the game. Mephisto gets +1 ATK for each card you removed from play this way.)
I control Mephisto and reveal my Underworld character card, targeting a New Blood in your KO'd pile. I pass priority to you.
You control Mephisto and reveal an Underworld character card, targeting the same New Blood in your KO'd pile. You pass priority to me.
I do the same thing, and then you do. The loop has started.

At this point, because I started the loop (mine is the first action that is being repeated), I need to state the number of times I'm willing to do this (I can't choose infinite). After this, you need to state the number of times you're willing to do this (Suggestion is the number of times I said +1). Now we advance the game forward as if we had done the action that many times. You will have done the last action and so you will resolve it first (removing the New Blood from play and getting +1 ATK for your Mephisto). Now, I could chain to your effect before letting your effect resolve, but I would not be allowed to do so with the same action that the loop was based on (so I couldn't reveal the card and target the same New Blood in your KO'd pile).

As for a single player's loop, the Dr. Light deck would likely be the easiest example. Assume pre-Rama-Tut errata.
I control Dr. Light, Master of Holograms who is teamed up with the Fantastic Four and Doom. I also control Dr. Doom. I activate Dr. Light, targeting Rama-Tut in my KO'd pile. Pass. When I receive priority again, Rama-Tut comes into play. His triggered effect goes on the chain and I target Cosmic Radiation. I KO Rama-Tut to the effect of Devil's Due targeting Dr. Light (giving him a +1/+1 counter.) I play Cosmic Radiation which will ready Dr. Light. I have demonstrated the loop and now have to choose a number of times I will be doing this. The end result will be characters with a massive ATK/DEF (in the millions or billions).

As for a mandatory infinite loop, this would happen for example, if Stilt Man weren't errata'd with the text (except for characters named Stilt Man). If you control a Stilt Man and I recruit Stilt Man with a boost (he will get a +1/+1 counter when he comes into play), your Stilt-Man would trigger, getting a +1/+1 counter, which would trigger my Stilt-Man, etc. If neither player has a means to break this loop, it will go infinitely and the game will end in a draw.
 
Well one example involves the much vaunted Dr. Light combo:

[vcard=DGL-040]Dr. Light[/vcard]
Activate è Put target character card with cost 2 or less from your KO'd pile into your front row unless you control a character with the same name. Use this power only during your recruit step.

[vcard=MOR-116] Rama-Tut[/vcard]
When Rama-Tut comes into play, if you control Dr. Doom, you may return target plot twist card from your KO'd pile to your hand.

[vcard=MOR-069]Cosmic Radiaton[/vcard]
Ready any number of Fantastic Four characters you control. Those characters cannot attack this turn.

[vcard=MSM-130]Devil's Due[/vcard]
Ongoing: KO a character you control è Put a +1 ATK / +1 DEF counter on target Doom character you control.


Presuming Dr. Light is teamed up with Fantastic Four:

You KO Rama-Tut to put a +1 ATK/+1 DEF counter on Dr. Doom. (Thanks to Devi's Due)

Activate Dr. Light and bring Rama-Tut back into play. (Now go get Cosmic Radiation from your KO'd Pile if you don't already have it)

KO Rama-Tut again for Devil's Due. Put another +1 ATK/+1 DEF counter on Doom.

Play Cosmic Radiation and ready Dr. Light.

Activate him and bring Rama-Tut back into play. Then go get Cosmic Radiation for Rama-Tut coming into play again.

Then do it again and again anad again.

So in this scenario you would show that you are setting up this potentially infinite loop, demostrate how it works, and declare how many ime you are planning on using it. So declare 1 million and Dr. Doom has 1 million +1 ATK / +1 DEF counters on him.


Of course, when the July 1st comes around, Rama-Tut will have been errat-ed to where you can only get a plot twist if he was recruited this turn, not just when he comes into play as he does now. But for right now I'd thought I'd mention the mst infamous infinte loop.

There are variations on this combo but they all include Rama-Tut so you can see why they are going to eratta him.


EDIT: HEY! No fair posting while I'm proof reading! :p
 
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