Macro Cosmos and Grand Convergence

[skey23]

This was asked on another site. There was an answer given, but I'm not too sure I believe it, sooo....

Can you activate "Macro Cosmos" and then chain "Grand Convergence" and have the effect of "Grand Gonvergence" resolve properly?

One of the answers given was that "Macro Cosmos" must be fully resolved before you can activate "Grand Convergence" and get it's effect.


What do you think?

 

[John Danker]

An interesting question, knee jerk reaction...

A continuous trap card isn't "On" the field until it resolves. Just like Sangan isn't "On" the field if flipped face up and it's summon is negated by Horn Of Heaven / Solemn Judgement.

 

[masterwoo0]

Devil's Advocate here... Grand Convergence is only "looking" for Macro Cosmos. It shouldn't need to be fully resolved (or even if Royal Decree is face-up negating it) in order to activate GC.

 

[skey23]

Devil's Advocate here... Grand Convergence is only "looking" for Macro Cosmos. It shouldn't need to be fully resolved (or even if Royal Decree is face-up negating it) in order to activate GC.

And that's exactly my thinking.

But, because the card hasn't 'resolved' yet, is it still considered to be face-up?

 

[John Danker]

See my original post regarding Sangan being flip summoned and Solemn Judgement / Horn of Heaven. When Sagan is flipped face up...it's face up on the field...but it doesn't "resolve" to the field before it's summon is negated by Solemn Judgement / Horn of Heaven ...therefore, it was never on the field.....I'd be happy to have someone give me a better example and prove me wrong on this one, I really have nothing other than what I've stated to back up my knee jerk reaction.....so by all means...make me a monkey's uncle.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

And that's exactly my thinking.

But, because the card hasn't 'resolved' yet, is it still considered to be face-up?

Imperial Order
As long as this card remains face-up on the field, negate the effects of all Spell Cards on the field.

So if spell cards aren't face-up on the field until they are resolved, then how could they be negated by imperial order?

 

[Kyhotae]

If you can chain them together the way that guy said, then you would not be able to chain "Mystical Space Typhoon" to "Imperial Order" to destroy it because it will already be "face-up on the field" before "Mystical Space Typhoon" can be activated.

We all know that this is not the case. "Macro Cosmos" is not "face-up on the field" until it resolves, so "Grand Convergence" cannot be activated until after "Macro Cosmos" resolves.

 

[masterwoo0]

If you can chain them together the way that guy said, then you would not be able to chain "Mystical Space Typhoon" to "Imperial Order" to destroy it because it will already be "face-up on the field" before "Mystical Space Typhoon" can be activated.

We all know that this is not the case. "Macro Cosmos" is not "face-up on the field" until it resolves, so "Grand Convergence" cannot be activated until after "Macro Cosmos" resolves.

Not good enough. MST doesnt need to wait to destroy a face-up card. It could already be activated as long as there was at least one other card on the field other than MST.

Macro Cosmos isnt being used for "its" effect. Its only be used for Grand Convergences effect, just like Kozaky is only being used for giant Kozaky's effect.

 

[Tiso]

Not to mention that is the mechanics behind Continuous Traps. I am going to have to side with Woo on this one. It only needs a face-up Macro Cosmos on the field to be activated, not a Macro Cosmos that is resolved on the field.

 

[drzero7]

This is like my question that Dust Tornado can be chained to Royal Decree activation and destroy it. Since Royal Decree isn't "on" the field yet, a trap card can destroy it.

You pretty much have to successfully activate Macro before Grand activation.

 

[Tiso]

That is not it at all. It is not the fact that is "not on the field" because it is on the field already. It is the fact that the mechanics beyond Continuous Cards state their effects do not activate until they resolve. It has nothing to do with being flipped face-up or what have you.

 

[masterwoo0]

You arent trying to get Macro Cosmo's effect.

Does Umi or A legendary ocean need to be "active" in order for deepsea warrior and the legendary fisherman to get their effects? It only has to be face-up.

Lets say for instance, you summon the legendary fisheman without umi on the field, because its the biggest attack monster in your possession at that time.

He survives long enough for you to draw Umi. So you play Umi to your Field Spell Zone and your opponent chains Offerings to the Doomed and targets the legendary fisherman.

Would he be destroyed? He only needs Umi to be face-up on the field, doesnt he??

Keep in mind that "Umi" has yet to fully resolve its effect (which is irrelevant, because Fisherman isnt going to be affected anyway) because of the chain by OttD.

 

[DH2K4]

I don't see where the confusion is for some people.

You decide to activate your face-down Macro Cosmos in response to a card your opponent has played, so you chain MC, flipping the card face-up, now you got a face-down Grand Convergence, and you want to activate it as well, and look, there is a MC face-up on the field, because you just flipped it up, regardless if it's resolved or not. Its face-up, you can see it, your opponent can see it, anyone can see, that there is a MC on your field, because it is Face-up and that is the only thing GC asks for.

 

[HorusMaster]

I am assuming that the opponent has the ability to respond to Macros being flipped before GC is chained, true? so unless the opponent chains a card to the activation (not resolved) of Macros, then the effect of GC can be activated. If MST, Dust Tornado, Solemn Judgement or Royal Surrender are chained to the activation of Macros, then the effect of GC cannot be properly resolved as the conditions are not met when activated. If the opponent does not respond to the activation of Macros, then I agree that Macros only need be face up for GC to activate as the card text states. So cards like Royal Decree cannot stop GC.

Guess it would work like this:
Player A flips Macros face-up
Player B responds- no response then
Player A activates Grand

 

[Tiso]

I am assuming that the opponent has the ability to respond to Macros being flipped before GC is chained, true? so unless the opponent chains a card to the activation (not resolved) of Macros, then the effect of GC can be activated. If MST, Dust Tornado, Solemn Judgement or Royal Surrender are chained to the activation of Macros, then the effect of GC cannot be properly resolved as the conditions are not met when activated. If the opponent does not respond to the activation of Macros, then I agree that Macros only need be face up for GC to activate as the card text states. So cards like Royal Decree cannot stop GC.

Uh....

If an effect that destroys "Macro Cosmos" or removes it from the field is chained to "Grand Convergence", the effects of "Grand Convergence" will still resolve because the activation conditions were correct when it was activated.

That pretty much puts an end to all of this right now.

 

[HorusMaster]

Uh....

If an effect that destroys "Macro Cosmos" or removes it from the field is chained to "Grand Convergence", the effects of "Grand Convergence" will still resolve because the activation conditions were correct when it was activated.

That pretty much puts an end to all of this right now.

I guess...but if Macros is destroyed BEFORE Grand Convergence, then this ALL becomes a mute point as the conditions for GC's activation are not met because Macros is not "face up". True?

 

[DH2K4]

I guess...but if Macros is destroyed BEFORE Grand Convergence, then this ALL becomes a mute point as the conditions for GC's activation are not met because Macros is not "face up". True?

Er...if you played MC, someone chains an MST/Dust and you chain to that GC, then GC will still work, its activation requirement is only for MC to be face-up on the field, thats it, if MC is destroyed somewhere along the line, GC will still fully work, as long as GC was in that chain.

 

[Tiso]

I guess...but if Macros is destroyed BEFORE Grand Convergence, then this ALL becomes a mute point as the conditions for GC's activation are not met because Macros is not "face up". True?

Uh... what part of that was confusing for you to understand.

If an effect that destroys "Macro Cosmos" or removes it from the field is chained to "Grand Convergence", the effects of "Grand Convergence" will still resolve because the activation conditions were correct when it was activated

 

[HorusMaster]

Uh... what part of that was confusing for you to understand.

If an effect that destroys "Macro Cosmos" or removes it from the field is chained to "Grand Convergence", the effects of "Grand Convergence" will still resolve because the activation conditions were correct when it was activated

UH, Nothing! I didn't chain to Grand Convergence, I chained to Macros Cosmos.

 

[DH2K4]

Ok then, you chained a card to MC, that destroys it, I can still chain My GC to it, and it will resolve fully.