Macro Cosmos and Grand Convergence

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skey23

Council of Heroes
This was asked on another site. There was an answer given, but I'm not too sure I believe it, sooo....

Can you activate "Macro Cosmos" and then chain "Grand Convergence" and have the effect of "Grand Gonvergence" resolve properly?

One of the answers given was that "Macro Cosmos" must be fully resolved before you can activate "Grand Convergence" and get it's effect.


What do you think?
 
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That doesn't apply to what's being addressed here.

Somebody better have sent this to the judge's list because you're not going to convince me that "Grand Convergence" can be chained to "Macro Cosmos" unless I hear it from Kevin Tewart (or one of the other answer-guys) himself.
 
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Kyhotae said:
That doesn't apply to what's being addressed here.

Somebody better have sent this to the judge's list because you're not going to convince me that "Grand Convergence" can be chained to "Macro Cosmos" unless I hear it from Kevin Tewart (or one of the other answer-guys) himself.
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http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=2259

As soon as Umi is activated there is Umi on the field, so Tornado wall doesn't get destroyed, when Umi replaces Umi.

So, as soon as a card is activated it is face-up on the field for other cards to reference.
 
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Kyhotae said:
As soon as I see Kevin Tewart, et. al say it, I will.
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Curtis already said it, though.

The difference in the card text is a moot point.

Its about the game mechanics, and that post explains what face-up on the field means, and that it has nothing to do with 'resolved.'
 
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Please don't. That's what the "et. al" was for...

And, like I said. The wording/situation is too different for me. If I had access to the judge's list, I'd submit it myself. I believe it when I see it and I'll rule it my way until I see something official refuting it.
 
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There is nothing to debate. It was answered. It was explained. Accept it. That is like refusing to accept that humans have hearts, and until you open a person up to verify it, it aint true.
 
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No it's not. If it was satisfactorily explained, then I wouldn't still doubt it. I don't have to accept it just because you say I should. My understanding of the mechanics involved leads me to a different conclusion, so if you're going to just keep saying "Accept it," I'm just going to keep saying "No."
 
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Kyhotae said:
No it's not. If it was satisfactorily explained, then I wouldn't still doubt it. I don't have to accept it just because you say I should. My understanding of the mechanics involved leads me to a different conclusion, so if you're going to just keep saying "Accept it," I'm just going to keep saying "No."
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You're right. You dont have to accept that a field card replacing a field card means that it only needs to be "face-up" in order to keep tornado wall from being destroyed.

In your opinion, a card should resolve before it is face-up, so why doesnt tornado wall get destroyed before Umi resolves?

Explain that....
 
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masterwoo0 said:
You're right. You dont have to accept that a field card replacing a field card means that it only needs to be "face-up" in order to keep tornado wall from being destroyed.

In your opinion, a card should resolve before it is face-up, so why doesnt tornado wall get destroyed before Umi resolves?

Explain that....
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Wouldn't that follow suit that because the change between two field spell cards has no speed, Tornado Wall could not just jump in between a field being played and destroy itself?
 
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slither said:
Wouldn't that follow suit that because the change between two field spell cards has no speed, Tornado Wall could not just jump in between a field being played and destroy itself?
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No. Tornado Wall says that if Umi is gone, so is Tornado wall. That is conditional upon Tornado wall being on the field.
 
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Because "Tornado Wall" cannot destroy itself in the middle of a chain the way that "Spirit Reaper" is not destroyed until the card targeting it resolves. When "Umi" is activated, replacing "Umi", the effect resolves and "Tornado Wall" checks to see if "Umi" is still on the field. It is, so it says "Cool, I'll just hang out here for a little while longer.
 
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Kyhotae said:
Because "Tornado Wall" cannot destroy itself in the middle of a chain the way that "Spirit Reaper" is not destroyed until the card targeting it resolves. When "Umi" is activated, replacing "Umi", the effect resolves and "Tornado Wall" checks to see if "Umi" is still on the field. It is, so it says "Cool, I'll just hang out here for a little while longer.
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Why cant it? What chain can a Spell Speed 1 card perform with another Spell Speed 1 effect? Where are you getting that from? Nothing is even being targeted....

Tornado wall isnt looking for a resulotion, its looking for Umi. It doesnt say, "When Umi resolves, Tornado call can be activated."

Spirit Reaper CAN destroy itself in the middle of a resolving chain, just like Berserk Gorilla. It just cant destroy itself in the middle of a card resolving. You got it slightly off there. Nice try though.
 
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Like I said, there's still enough confusion about the issue to warrant an official consult. Send it in. I'll be happy to say I'm wrong when I here it from UDE.
 
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Not to add fuel to the fire here, but...

If Grand Convergence is chained to Macro Cosmos, and the opponent responds by chaining Dust Tornado to destroy Macro Cosmos, what happens to the opponent's monsters? Grand Convergence will destroy them, but since Macro Cosmos has not fully resolved, I assume they hit the Graveyard as normal, correct?

EDIT: In fact, I assume this would also be true regardless of whether whether Dust Tornado destroyed Macro Cosmos. Since Grand Convergence resolves first on the chain, the monsters that are destroyed are going to the Graveyard because Macro Cosmos isn't fully resolved yet, correct?
 
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Assuming you can chain "Grand Convergence" to the ACTIVATION of "Macro Cosmos", then yes, "Dust Tornado" will destroy "Macro Cosmos" before it's effect resolves and is active on the field. Any monsters destroyed by "Grand Convergence" (if that is a legal activation) will then go to the Graveyard instead of the Removed from Play Area.
 
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Kyhotae said:
Like I said, there's still enough confusion about the issue to warrant an official consult. Send it in. I'll be happy to say I'm wrong when I here it from UDE.
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Way I see it, If I remove one drop of water from the Ocean, I still have an Ocean, right?

Relating that to this Thread, if I remove your comments, I would say everyone else is pretty much NOT confused.

You're still trying to explain your way through resolving Marco Cosmos. Why? It isnt important that it resolves. No one is trying to use Macro Cosmos's effect. A face-up card is a face-up card regardless of its resolution.

When Dark Coffin is destroyed by the effect of Bait Doll because it forces the activation; it was still destroyed, wasnt it? Dark Coffin doesnt have a resolution on the field (because it never activates on the field), so why cant I get the effect?
 
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That's fine. Convince yourself you're right because you have no confirmation and several others agree with you. Last time I checked, the truth was whatever most people think it is, so you must be right.

They're new cards, this situation was not addressed in the rulings, several other judges, at the very least, ruled the opposite of what you believe at the Sneak Preview that was referred to at the beginning of this whole mess (on the other site that Simon referred to), so take your "ocean" and have a beach party for all I care. You don't get to be right, though, until the guys that run the show say you are. Neither do I. That's why you have to ask them.
 
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