mistress and water dragon

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Digital Jedi said:
Many rulings flat out state things under the assumption that you know the basic mechanics and effect interaction. Nothing in the Water Dragon's ruling, or even his Effect Text suggests that timestamping no longer applies. Caution must be excersized in presuming that a ruling is saying to ignore a fundamental game rule when it doesn't specifically say to ignore that game rule. There is nothing to indicate that Water Dragon's Continuous Modifier supercedes all others.
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Ruling number 6 on netrep:

"While "Water Dragon" is face-up on the field, either player can activate an effect to increase the ATK of a FIRE or Pyro-Type monster, but the Continuous Effect of "Water Dragon" will change it back to 0."
 
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...and thats why i asked about scroll of bewichtment (that i've just seen posted on her rulings) tha if euiped to elemental misterss doriado, it will take preference before her effect. the thing that i cant get out of my head is why is adding 200 attk points to a WATER type monster going to affect a FIRE type monster? (you guys have been very clear about mistress beign a FIRE type monster in the face of Water Dragon, the thing that i cant quite get is why, if legendary ocean is affecting both water types (doriado and water d.) does doriado not receives the boinus of ALO, but she is affected by Water Dragon......

i think i confused myself on that last one.....
 
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The term "timestamping" is being misused here...

Timestaming DOES NOT nullify one (or 2 or more) effects from applying, it simply determines the FINAL OUTCOME of overlapping effects.

In a case, for example, where Battle Positions are being changed, a monster can only be in 1 Battle Position at a time, so one effect will eventually take precedence over another. I.E. Final Attack Orders vs. Level Limit - Area B.

In a case where you have overlapping ATK/DEF modifiers that have bonuses/reductions you CAN simply make them cummulative, and add/subtract them into a final number. This does not apply to halves/doubles or becomes, as those are not added/subtracted.
 
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Melchiah76 said:
...and thats why i asked about scroll of bewichtment (that i've just seen posted on her rulings) tha if euiped to elemental misterss doriado, it will take preference before her effect. the thing that i cant get out of my head is why is adding 200 attk points to a WATER type monster going to affect a FIRE type monster? (you guys have been very clear about mistress beign a FIRE type monster in the face of Water Dragon, the thing that i cant quite get is why, if legendary ocean is affecting both water types (doriado and water d.) does doriado not receives the boinus of ALO, but she is affected by Water Dragon......

i think i confused myself on that last one.....
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I thought I already explained this as clearly as I possibly could. When you activate A Legendary Ocean, Water Dragon and Elemental Mistress Doriado will increase their ATK by 200. However, because Elemental Mistress Doriado is still a FIRE monster she will go right back to 0. Whatever you do to increase her stats will always result in it going straight back to 0.
 
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Personally i don't see any ruling that states Continuous Effects can't overlap and be piled on top of Water Dragon's effect. That seems to be more of an assumtion made by you guys, and the ruling is specifically talking about "increase" or "decrease" modifiers.

"While "Water Dragon" is face-up on the field, either player can activate an effect to increase the ATK of a FIRE or Pyro-Type monster, but the Continuous Effect of "Water Dragon" will change it back to 0."

That ruling doesn't mean that if an effect hypothetically stated:

"While this card is face-up on the field, the ATK of FIRE monsters and Pyro-Type monsters become 2000."

Timestamping would determine the order. More than that, i'm not sure, i'd have to check more in ALO.
 
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novastar said:
Personally i don't see any ruling that states Continuous Effects can't overlap and be piled on top of Water Dragon's effect. That seems to be more of an assumtion made by you guys, and the ruling is specifically talking about "increase" or "decrease" modifiers.

"While "Water Dragon" is face-up on the field, either player can activate an effect to increase the ATK of a FIRE or Pyro-Type monster, but the Continuous Effect of "Water Dragon" will change it back to 0."

That ruling doesn't mean that if an effect hypothetically stated:

"While this card is face-up on the field, the ATK of FIRE monsters and Pyro-Type monsters become 2000."

Timestamping would determine the order. More than that, i'm not sure, i'd have to check more in ALO.
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If A Legendary Ocean or any other effect like that was to come after Water Dragon then I would have to agree Timestamping would determine the order. However, A Legendary Ocean is not such a card and thus Water Dragon will reset it. A Legendary Ocean is like most of the other stat changers. It states how much it will effect a target, by 200 points in this case. Water Dragon does not reduce the ATK by a certain number, it makes it become 0 at all times, regardless. It even states so in the rulings that you can use an effect to increase the ATK but it would revert back to 0. ALO is not a card to be considered a timestamp in that situation since it is not worded hypothectically in that fashion.
 
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I'm in agreement with Tiso on this one. It 'shouldn't' matter what ATK/DEF modifier was activated for any of her other attributes. The fact remains that she is STILL a Fire Monster.

Let me put it to you this way...How many monsters is "Elemental Mistress Doriado"? She is ONE monster who just happens to be 5 attributes all rolled into one. She is NOT 5 different monsters. You can't affect ONLY the Light monster or ONLY the Fire monster, you affect 'ALL' of them at once.

So, if "A Legendary Ocean" is active, she will become a 2 star 1400/1600 ATK/DEF monster. If "Hoshiningen" is then summoned, she will become a 1900/1600 ATK/DEF monster because she WILL still be affected by BOTH ATK/DEF modifiers. Now, if "Water Dragon" is summoned, her ATK becomes 0. The ATK increases from the other effects mean NOTHING because she is ALSO a Fire monster. Any effects to the 'Fire' side of her will/must affect ALL other attributes because she is ONE monster. Timestamping has nothing to do with it. Even if "Water Dragon" was out 1st, then "Elemental Mistress Doriado" was summoned, she would have an ATK of 0. Then, if "Hoshiningen" was summoned, his effect would attempt to increase "Doriado"s ATK by 500 points, but because she is a Fire monster, "Water Dragon"s continuous effect would come in reduce her ATK back to 0.

The ruling being quoted pretty much shows there is no timestamping here. "Water Dragon"s effect will override any attempts to increase/decrease a Fire/Pyro monster's ATK.
 
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skey23 said:
Let me put it to you this way...How many monsters is "Elemental Mistress Doriado"? She is ONE monster who just happens to be 5 attributes all rolled into one. She is NOT 5 different monsters. You can't affect ONLY the Light monster or ONLY the Fire monster, you affect 'ALL' of them at once.
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Actually, she is only 4. I made that same mistake too when I didnt read her effect. She is all except Dark.
 
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Tiso said:
If A Legendary Ocean or any other effect like that was to come after Water Dragon then I would have to agree Timestamping would determine the order. However, A Legendary Ocean is not such a card and thus Water Dragon will reset it. A Legendary Ocean is like most of the other stat changers. It states how much it will effect a target, by 200 points in this case. Water Dragon does not reduce the ATK by a certain number, it makes it become 0 at all times, regardless. It even states so in the rulings that you can use an effect to increase the ATK but it would revert back to 0. ALO is not a card to be considered a timestamp in that situation since it is not worded hypothectically in that fashion.
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My point was every effect/event that resolves is Timestamped... in some cases the timestamps are used to resolve the outcome, in others its not.

ALO vs. Water Dragon, timestamps are available, but the ruling says "forget that let Water Dragon take precedence." but it's not concrete to me, even with the ruling being so clean, that this applies to Continuous Effects that "increase" as well.

At any rate, i was merly pointing out that the term "Timestamping" was being used erroneously.
 
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well from my understanding when something creates an infinite loops, then you cant play it, for that im talking about Pole Position and so forth.

maybe this can cause the same nonsence.

1 card says increase the other cards says decrease, becuase the card in question shares affiliation with both.
 
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krazykidpsx said:
well from my understanding when something creates an infinite loops, then you cant play it, for that im talking about Pole Position and so forth.

maybe this can cause the same nonsence.

1 card says increase the other cards says decrease, becuase the card in question shares affiliation with both.
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No, no infinite loop will exist here. The effect of "Water Dragon", per the ruling suggests it's effect is FINAL and overrides all other ATK modifiers, whether they be in effect before "Water Dragon" was summoned, or after.

The issue that people 'seem' to be having is with "Elemental Mistress Doriado" being all 5 attributes at once, but only being 1 physical monster. They 'seem' to think that just because an effect increases only Light monsters, it 'shouldn't' be affected by "Water Dragon"'s effect because it only affects Fire/Pyro monsters.

What they need to 'realize' is that if I increase her by an effect that increases Light monsters, the Fire part of her also gains that increase because she is only 1 monster.
 
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guess its all about the text, huh..

"makes the attack" is that the original attack would be xyz number.

"increase/decrease the attack" its about making adds/substractions to the attack, aka, Axe of Despair, A Legendary Ocean...i think i got the hang of it, thanks, guys..


............so an issue of timestamping would occur if AFTER the summoning of Water Dragon, i summoned Cybernetic Magician and use his effect on doriado?...it makes the attack 2000......doesn't add or sub....im going the right way??
 
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Melchiah76 said:
guess its all about the text, huh..

"makes the attack" is that the original attack would be xyz number.

"increase/decrease the attack" its about making adds/substractions to the attack, aka, Axe of Despair, A Legendary Ocean...i think i got the hang of it, thanks, guys..


............so an issue of timestamping would occur if AFTER the summoning of Water Dragon, i summoned Cybernetic Magician and use his effect on doriado?...it makes the attack 2000......doesn't add or sub....im going the right way??
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No it wouldnt.

it doesnt matter how much you try to increase the creature, aslong as it is pyro or fire itll remain to be 0.
 
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