Multiple Leftover Effects Resolving...

[Tkwiget]

Alright, I never really got this down IMO and I want to bring the discussion back up and center it around one thing: multiple leftover effects resolving in a single game phase.

Player 1 has a monster removed from play via Dimensionhole and will come back during his Standby Phase of this turn. Player 1 also has a Future Fusion (sent 15 machines) that's prepping to summon out a Chimeratech Overdragon in the Standby Phase. Player 2 has Germ Infection equipped to Player 1's face up Attack Position Gemini Elf. Player 2 also has a Kiseitai equipped to Player 1's face up Attack Position Jinzo as well.

Player 1 goes through his Draw Phase and then enters the Standby Phase. There are four leftover effects that have to resolve in this game phase. They are, Player 1's Dimensionhole and Future Fusion along with Player 2's Germ Infection and Kiseitai.

This is how I think it could possibly be played out.

Player 1 decides not to resolve either of his effects and passes priority to Player 2. Player 2 decides not to resolve anything and passes priority back to Player 1. Player 1 must resolve something at this point and resolves Dimensionhole's leftover effect. Player 1's monster that was removed from play is now brought back onto the field in its original position. Player 2 now has priority to resolve a leftover effect and decides not to -- so priority is passed back to Player 1. Player 1 decides not to resolve any leftover effects and it goes back to Player 2. Player 2 now has to resolve an effect and chooses to resolve Germ Infection's effect and reduces Player 1's Gemini Elf's attack by 300 points. Player 1 now has the priority and chooses not to resolve any leftover effects. Priority goes to Player 2 and Player 2 passes back. Player 1 must resolve a leftover effect, thus he resolves Future Fusion and Fusion Summons his Chimeratech Overdragon onto the field in Attack Position. Player 1 doesn't respond to the successful summoning. Player 2 only responds with a negative hand gesture and with no cards (I would be to if I was about to get hit by a 12000 attack Chimeratech!). Player 2 now resolves his remaining leftover effect(s), Kiseitai, and gains 1200 Life points.

I'm wondering if priority works like that with leftover effects that have to resolve in a game phase before moving on in the turn. If that isn't the case then I'd love to be educated in this material again. Some of this stuff can be pretty tricky to keep straight and I really want to refresh my memory on this more advanced material. =)

 

[skey23]

Player 1 retains Priority after resolving his/her Phase Effect. That's the only thing I see that needs to be corrected.

 

[Tkwiget]

Say wha? That's new to me. Please explain.

 

[skey23]

We went over this last time...lol. My initial explanation to you was identical to what you just posted. Upon returning from Nationals, I 'corrected' myself as I learned my understanding was incorrect.

The Turn Player still retains Priority after resolving one of their Phase Effects. This is one of the few times where Priority doesn't actually 'bounce' back and forth.

 

[Tkwiget]

Ah! Alright, that would make sense as it isn't the same thing as multiple effects and cards activating in a single game phase. =P

 

[John Danker]

skey has it right Tk...after the process of resolving the first effect priority returns to the turn player and the whole thing starts over again. The effects are not chained to each other in any way so, once the chain resolves, as with any other chain, priority returns to the turn player.

One thing to consider though, the chain like any other must go through the response to the end of the chain applications and if there was a monster summoned because of that chain (just like any other chain in any other phase other than damage step) the players are allowed to respond to the summon before the turn player will be allowed to resolve another standby phase effect....correct me if I'm wrong here, it's been sometime since I've thought about the process. You know how it is, the scenario doesn't come up for long enough and I get rusty!

 

[Digital Jedi]

If I remember correctly, you resolve lingering effects much the same way you resolve a SEGOC, only they don't form a chain. They simply resolve separately following the same "stacking" order a SEGOC would (Turn Players first, Opponent second, etc) with the controller of each effect deciding what order to resolve them in. Of course it's been over a year since I did that Last Turn article, but that was covered in Last Turn's rulings a couple of times, at least.

 

[Tkwiget]

So with leftover effects from cards that aren't activating and just resolving, the turn player would have priority to resolve multiple leftover effects before his opponent? Is that what the L3's are being told how it works?

I plan on Head Judging sometime in the near future and this is something that I'm going to need to keep some close tabs on until I gain access to the L3 Judge board.

 

[skey23]

So with leftover effects from cards that aren't activating and just resolving, the turn player would have priority to resolve multiple leftover effects before his opponent? Is that what the L3's are being told how it works?

Yes, this is how it works....for now.

 

[Tkwiget]

Alright, I was getting that type of priority mixed up with the kind that works with multiple card and effect activations in a game phase.

 

[John Danker]

Take a look at the second paragraph of my previous post, am I wrong in my thinking there or is there a reason that the turn player would immediately be able to resolve another effect without a response to the end of the chain?

 

[skey23]

You are correct. If the resolution of the effect ended in the Summon of a monster, by either player, the Turn Player would indeed retain priority to respond to that Summon first. Then, if both players passed on the response to that Summon, the Turn Player once again would have Priority to resolve any remaining Phase Effects they control.

 

[Tkwiget]

I'm not sure what you mean by "end of the chain" John.

 

[John Danker]

Kiseitai's effect is a chainable event is it not? If Kiseitai's effect is choosen to resolve and does so....the end of the chain has been reached. Both players may respond to the end of the chain before Turn player resumes priority to resolve another of the lingering standby phase effect....that's what I'm asking anyway, if someone sees flaws in my thought pattern.

 

[skey23]

Now, that's a 'new' one to me John...lol.

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

Kiseitai's effect is a chainable event is it not? If Kiseitai's effect is choosen to resolve and does so....the end of the chain has been reached. Both players may respond to the end of the chain before Turn player resumes priority to resolve another of the lingering standby phase effect....that's what I'm asking anyway, if someone sees flaws in my thought pattern.

As far as that goes, what clasification of Spell Speed are given to these lingering effects? I mean, Player 1 resolves an effect and maintains priority to respond to it, can he then respond with another unresolved effect? Let's say that Turn Player's Future Fusion brings out Kaiser Dragon instead of Chimeratech (because of the issues that would bring up), now Turn Player has priority, can he respond by activating another lingering effect?

 

[Maruno]

... thus he resolves Future Fusion and Fusion Summons his Chimeratech Overdragon onto the field in Attack Position. Player 1 doesn't respond to the successful summoning. Player 2 only responds with a negative hand gesture and with no cards (I would be to if I was about to get hit by a 12000 attack Chimeratech!).

Just a small note, but Future Fusion + Chimeratech Overdragon doesn't work nicely. If Future Fusion is resolved first, you'll only have Dimensionhole left to contend with (and obviously it's recommended that you resolve Future Fusion first, so you can then get a monster on the field afterwards).

 

[Fury]

As far as that goes, what clasification of Spell Speed are given to these lingering effects?

Well I guess the same as the cards they are bound to (originating from).

However if there are 2 effects originating from traps (speed2), can you chain them together? I mean these are special forms of trigger effects and usually they chain together automatically with SEGOC - excluding these phase effects which are resolved 1 at a time (usually).

 

[Tkwiget]

Just a small note, but Future Fusion + Chimeratech Overdragon doesn't work nicely. If Future Fusion is resolved first, you'll only have Dimensionhole left to contend with (and obviously it's recommended that you resolve Future Fusion first, so you can then get a monster on the field afterwards).

That would be the logical and smart thing to do. But when it comes to understanding the mechanics of the situation, that isn't necessary.

As far as that goes, what clasification of Spell Speed are given to these lingering effects? I mean, Player 1 resolves an effect and maintains priority to respond to it, can he then respond with another unresolved effect? Let's say that Turn Player's Future Fusion brings out Kaiser Dragon instead of Chimeratech (because of the issues that would bring up), now Turn Player has priority, can he respond by activating another lingering effect?

From my understanding, lingering effects don't have activation timings and only resolution timings. Thus, they have no Spell Speed because of that and because they don't form a Chain.

Well I guess the same as the cards they are bound to (originating from).

However if there are 2 effects originating from traps (speed2), can you chain them together? I mean these are special forms of trigger effects and usually they chain together automatically with SEGOC - excluding these phase effects which are resolved 1 at a time (usually).

If lingering effects can be chained to, then why did John and Skey say they don't form a chain of any kind? Lingering effects have no Spell Speed from what I can gather since I see them having no activation timing of any kind and just a resolution timing.

Kiseitai's effect is a chainable event is it not? If Kiseitai's effect is choosen to resolve and does so....the end of the chain has been reached. Both players may respond to the end of the chain before Turn player resumes priority to resolve another of the lingering standby phase effect....that's what I'm asking anyway, if someone sees flaws in my thought pattern.

John, it was my understanding that Kiseitai's life point gaining effect didn't activate. Then I read the ruling it has with connection to Brain Jacker and made the connection that the ruling is implying.

So the concenus of how multiple lingering effects from both players resolve is the following?:

"Turn Player can resolve multiple lingering effects in any order that he/she desires before his opponent does."

Is that the basic jest of what's being explained to me?

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Now I want to get a refresh on multiple cards being activated and resolving in the same game phase as well as some other things. But one thing at a time, right?

Player 1: 3000 Life Points
Player 2: 4700 Life Points

Player 1 has a face up Defense Position Blast Juggler, Sangan, Witch of the Black Forest, and a face up attack position Ebon Magician Curran and Blast Juggler. Player 1 also has a Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys in his Graveyard that was destroyed last turn. Player 1 also has a face up Attack Position Spear Cretin that activated its Flip Effect one or more turns ago and only needs to be sent to his Graveyard to get the effect. Player 1 also has a face down Divine Wrath, Torrential Tribute, and Barrel Behind the Door with three Spell Cards in hand. Player 1 also has a Revival Jam that was destroyed as a result of battle last turn and had paid the 1000 Life Points.

Player 2 has a Lightforce Sword ready return the card it removed from play to Player 1's hand. Player 2 has a face up Attack Position Aqua Spirit, Malice Ascendant, Dark Zebra, and a Defense Position Balloon Lizard with 5 Counters on it. Player 2 has a face up The Eye of Truth, Bottomless Shifting Sand, and Minor Goblin Official with two Malice Ascendant in his Graveyard. Player 2 has two cards in hand.

Player 1 draws for his turn. Player 1 enters his Standby Phase. Player 1 retains Priority to activate and resolve a card because he's the Turn Player. So Player 1 decides to activate and resolve his first Blast Juggler. Player 2 doesn't desire to chain anything to Blast Juggler. Player 1 doesn't desire to chain anything either. Blast Juggler destroys Player 1's Sangan and Witch of the Black Forest. Sangan and Witch of the Black Forest form a SEGOC situation. Both players don't desire to add anything else to the chain. So Player 1 places Sangan as Link 1 and Witch of the Black Forest as Link 2. Witch of the Black Forest resolves and Player 1 searches for Jinzo. Sangan resolves and Player 1 searches for Treeborn Frog. Priority is passed to Player 2.

Player 2 doesn't wish to activate or resolve anything at this point. So Priority is passed back to Player 1. Player 1 doesn't wish to resolve anything either so it's passed back to Player 2. Player 2 at this point must activate and resolve one of his cards. So he chooses Malice Ascendant to activate and resolve. Neither player wishes to chain to Malice Ascendant. So two cards are sent from the top of Player 1's deck to the Graveyard because two Malice Ascendant are in Player 2's Graveyard. Priority is now passed to Player 1. Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything so Priority is passed back to Player 2. Player 2 doesn't wishto activate and resolve anything either. Thus, Priority is passed once again back to Player 1.

Player 1 must activate and resolve a card. So Player 1 decides to activate Ebon Magician Curran's effect. Neither player desire to chain to Ebon Magician Curran's effect. Ebon Magician Curran's effect resolves and deals 1200 points of Effect Damage to Player 2; which reduces him down to 3500 from 4700. Priority is passed to Player 2.

Player 2 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority is passed back to Player 1. Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything either. So Player 2 gains Priority again and must activate and resolve a card. Player 2 decides that he will resolve his Lightforce Sword's leftover effect and return the card that was removed from play back to Player 1's hand. Priority is passed to Player 1.

Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority is passed back to Player 2. Player 2 decides to activate and resolve his Minor Goblin Official. Neither player desire to chain to Minor Goblin Official's effect. So Minor Goblin Official does 500 points of Effect Damage, thus, reducing Player 1's Life Points to 2500 from 3000. Priority passes to Player 1.

Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority passes back to Player 2. Player 2 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything either. So Priority is passed back to Player 1. Player 1 must activate and resolve a card. So he activates his last Blast Juggler. Neither player wish to chain to Blast Juggler. Blast Juggler destroys Spear Cretin and Balloon Lizard. Spear Cretin and Balloon Lizard form a SEGOC situation. Spear Cretin is automatically Link 1 because it's controlled by Player 1 (Turn Player) and is a mandatory effect. Balloon Lizard is automatically Link 2 because it's controlled by Player 2 (Non-Turn Player) and is a mandatory effect. Player 2 doesn't wish to chain to his own Balloon Lizard. Player 1, however, does wish to chain to Balloon Lizard's effect. So Player 1 chains Barrel Behind the Door. The chain now resolves with Barrel Behind the Door redirecting the Effect Damage Balloon Lizard would deal to Player 1 to Player 2. Player 2 loses 2000 Life Points from 3500. Spear Cretin resolves and both Players can Special Summon a monster from their respective Graveyards through its effect. Player 1 Special Summons his Witch of the Black Forest from his Graveyard in face up Attack Position. Player 2 Special Summons the Balloon Lizard that Player 1's Blast Juggler destroyed in face down Defense Position. Player 1 retains Priority to respond to the successful Special Summonings with correct cards or effects. Player 1 doesn't wish to respond with anything. Player 2 doesn't wish to respond with anything either. Priority goes back to Player 1 to restart the cycle of Priority.

Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority is passed to Player 2. Player 2 activates his The Eye of Truth. Neither player wish to chain to The Eye of Truth. Player 1 reveals his hand to Player 2 and it contains: Brain Control, Smashing Ground, Monster Reborn, Treeborn Frog, and Jinzo. Player 1 gains 3000 Life Points to 5500 from 2500. Priority is passed to Player 1.

Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority passes to Player 2. Player 2 activates Aqua Spirit and targets Player 1's Cyber Dragon with its effect. Player 1 chains Divine Wrath to Aqua Spirit's effect by discarding Treeborn Frog in his hand to the Graveyard for its activation cost. Aqua Spirit's effect is negated and Aqua Spirit is destroyed. Priority is passed to Player 1.

Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything at this point. Priority is passed to Player 2. Player 2 activates Bottomless Shifting Sand's self-destruct effect. Neither player desires to chain. Bottomless Shifting Sand is destroyed (because he only has two cards in hand). Priority passes to Player 1. Player 1 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything at this point. Priority is passed to Player 2. Player 2 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything at this point. Priority is passed back to Player 1.

Player 1 must activate and resolve a card at this point. Player 1 activates Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys. Neither player wish to chain to Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys' effect. Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys is Special Summoned successfully because neither player desire to respond to the summoning. Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys' Spell/Trap destruction effect activates. Player 2 doesn't wish to chain to the effect. Player 1 decides to chain to the effect with Torrential Tribute. Neither player desires to chain to Torrential Tribute. The chain resolves. Torrential Tribute destroys all monsters on the field (Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys, Witch of the Black Forest, Dark Zebra, and Balloon Lizard). Player 1 searches his deck for Magician of Faith with Witch of the Black Forest's effect. Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys' effect resolves and destroys all Spell and Trap cards on the field; which are Player 2's The Eye of Truth and Minor Goblin Official. Priority is passed to Player 2.

Player 2 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority is passed to Player 1. Player 1 activates Treeborn Frog's effect. Neither player wish to chain to Treeborn Frog's effect. Treeborn Frog is Special Summoned successfully. Neither player desire to respond to the summoning. Priority passes to Player 2. Player 2 doesn't wish to activate and resolve anything. Priority is passed back to Player 1. Player 1 activates Revival Jam's Special Summoning effect. Neither player desire to chain to the effect. Revival Jam is successfully Special Summoned. Neither player desire to respond to the successful summoning.

At this point no further effects are present in the Standby Phase that require to activate and resolve or simply just resolve. Both players proceed to enter Player 1's Main Phase.

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Someone please take a quick run through of that and see if I'm getting these advanced mechanics correct.

 

[John Danker]

Ebon Magician Curran

Text:

During your Standby Phase, inflict 300 points of damage to your opponent's Life Points for each monster on your opponent's side of the field.

Rulings:

The effect of "Ebon Magician Curran" is a Trigger Effect that can be chained to.

So once standby phase is entered Ebon Magician Curran's effect is placed on the chain, at this point you wouldn't be able to activate Blast Juggler's effect as it's an ignition effect.


and hey! Do you have to include so many flipping cards!? <laffin> Pare that down a few eh? Diet Coke only goes so far with me.....what are you trying to do, write the L4 test?