Multiple Leftover Effects Resolving...

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Alright, I never really got this down IMO and I want to bring the discussion back up and center it around one thing: multiple leftover effects resolving in a single game phase.

Player 1 has a monster removed from play via Dimensionhole and will come back during his Standby Phase of this turn. Player 1 also has a Future Fusion (sent 15 machines) that's prepping to summon out a Chimeratech Overdragon in the Standby Phase. Player 2 has Germ Infection equipped to Player 1's face up Attack Position Gemini Elf. Player 2 also has a Kiseitai equipped to Player 1's face up Attack Position Jinzo as well.

Player 1 goes through his Draw Phase and then enters the Standby Phase. There are four leftover effects that have to resolve in this game phase. They are, Player 1's Dimensionhole and Future Fusion along with Player 2's Germ Infection and Kiseitai.

This is how I think it could possibly be played out.

Player 1 decides not to resolve either of his effects and passes priority to Player 2. Player 2 decides not to resolve anything and passes priority back to Player 1. Player 1 must resolve something at this point and resolves Dimensionhole's leftover effect. Player 1's monster that was removed from play is now brought back onto the field in its original position. Player 2 now has priority to resolve a leftover effect and decides not to -- so priority is passed back to Player 1. Player 1 decides not to resolve any leftover effects and it goes back to Player 2. Player 2 now has to resolve an effect and chooses to resolve Germ Infection's effect and reduces Player 1's Gemini Elf's attack by 300 points. Player 1 now has the priority and chooses not to resolve any leftover effects. Priority goes to Player 2 and Player 2 passes back. Player 1 must resolve a leftover effect, thus he resolves Future Fusion and Fusion Summons his Chimeratech Overdragon onto the field in Attack Position. Player 1 doesn't respond to the successful summoning. Player 2 only responds with a negative hand gesture and with no cards (I would be to if I was about to get hit by a 12000 attack Chimeratech!). Player 2 now resolves his remaining leftover effect(s), Kiseitai, and gains 1200 Life points.

I'm wondering if priority works like that with leftover effects that have to resolve in a game phase before moving on in the turn. If that isn't the case then I'd love to be educated in this material again. Some of this stuff can be pretty tricky to keep straight and I really want to refresh my memory on this more advanced material. =)
 
Well, 1 thing I noticed is incorrect, is that when the turn player finishes resolving the effect (plus anything chained to it) priority does not automatically pass to the NTP. TP keeps the priority after the resolution of any of the effects. It is his right as the turn player. He can sit there and fire off all of his unresolved effects before giving NTP a chance to fire off any of his (he can always activate something in response, or chain (as called for), but his unresolved effects must wait).

Also (must be the haircut), in answer to my own query (#16), since after the special summon (see above), the TP ONLY retains priority to respond to the summon with the activation of Monster effects or the activation of Spell Speed 2-3 effect, then he cannot respond to his summon with another unresolved effect, which has no spell speed.
 
John Danker said:
Ebon Magician Curran

Text:

During your Standby Phase, inflict 300 points of damage to your opponent's Life Points for each monster on your opponent's side of the field.

Rulings:

The effect of "Ebon Magician Curran" is a Trigger Effect that can be chained to.

So once standby phase is entered Ebon Magician Curran's effect is placed on the chain, at this point you wouldn't be able to activate Blast Juggler's effect as it's an ignition effect.


and hey! Do you have to include so many flipping cards!? <laffin> Pare that down a few eh? Diet Coke only goes so far with me.....what are you trying to do, write the L4 test?
John, Ebon Magician Curran says, "During the Standby Phase" just like Minor Goblin Official, The Eye of Truth, and Blast Juggler. During is any point from the beginning to the end of a particular period of time. This particular period of time happens to be the Standby Phase. It shouldn't matter when in the Standby Phase that Ebon Magician Curran is activated as long as it happens if the card remains face up until that time. You yourself even taught me that John. Has this some how changed since then?

L4 test? I'd love to write it. I'm pretty sure that my questions would be ridiculously complex enough to make the person, taking the test, get frustrated from all the reading by the time they reach question #5. =P

So I would like to know if I'm even remotely getting a handle on this kind of advanced material. I would like everyone's opinion on the matter. I certainly don't know everything in this game and I've worked awfully hard to know quite a bit of it. John, you know that better than everyone on this site.
 
That's one of the things I need refreshing on here. With lingering standby phase effects do they actually begin a chain or are they like Last Will's lingering effect and are unchainable?

If they don't use the chain, when the effect resolves is there a response window to the resolution of that effect before turn player can then resolve another lingering standby phase (the same could be applied to numerous scenarios in the end phase) effect?

As I stated in a previous post Ebon Magician Curran's effect begins a chain but it's not a lingering standby phase effect such as Lightforce Sword for instance.

Geezz....why is it that the more I learn about this game the more I realize I should already know but don't? <rolling eyes>
 
John Danker said:
That's one of the things I need refreshing on here. With lingering standby phase effects do they actually begin a chain or are they like Last Will's lingering effect and are unchainable?

If they don't use the chain, when the effect resolves is there a response window to the resolution of that effect before turn player can then resolve another lingering standby phase (the same could be applied to numerous scenarios in the end phase) effect?

As I stated in a previous post Ebon Magician Curran's effect begins a chain but it's not a lingering standby phase effect such as Lightforce Sword for instance.
A good question to answer about Last Will's lingering effect is if you can Royal Oppression it. If you can RO Last Will's lingering effect then that means it can be chained to. I haven't found any evidence in the rulings that bring me to believe that it's a chainable event. Thus, I concluded for the time being that lingering effects are unchainable events since there's no card or effect activation involved, just resolution of a leftover effect. Ebon Magician Curran doesn't have or create any lingering effects that are required to simply resolve.

And if how you and Skey are explaining how Priority works with lingering effects to me is how it works, then if the Turn Player had a lingering effect to resolve he would still have Priority to activate a card or effect before his opponent since he still has Priority.

John Danker said:
Geezz....why is it that the more I learn about this game the more I realize I should already know but don't? <rolling eyes>
Because this game is extremely screwed up but (as you've told me at least a half dozen times already) is about as fixed as it's going to get for the time being.
 
Tkwiget said:
John, Ebon Magician Curran says, "During the Standby Phase" just like Minor Goblin Official, The Eye of Truth, and Blast Juggler. During is any point from the beginning to the end of a particular period of time. This particular period of time happens to be the Standby Phase. It shouldn't matter when in the Standby Phase that Ebon Magician Curran is activated as long as it happens if the card remains face up until that time. You yourself even taught me that John. Has this some how changed since then?.

The test you pointed toward would make that seems so (that it can be activated anytime during the standby phase) but how does the ruling I quoted figure into that? I suppose once the standby phase is reached it's condition of activation is met but needn't be used at any paticular point in the standby phase....it's as if it were a mandatory ignition effect...that is NOT an official term btw!...just used it for lack of a better term.

The effect of "Ebon Magician Curran" is a Trigger Effect that can be chained to.

This appears to be a subject matter that I need to bone up on as I find myself with more and more questions on the topic. More of it has to do with weather the resolution of a lingering effect then allows for a response afterward before allowing another lingering effect to be resolved though.
 
The Eye of Truth is a Trigger effect too. Ectoplasmer is a Trigger effect also. You can activate them whenever you feel like in their respective game phases if multiple effects are involved.

The ruling is just saying that the monster effect can be chained to. Here's an example of how Ebon Magician Curran won't activate in the Standby Phase.

Field: 4 face up monsters (one being Ebon Magician Curran that the Turn Player controls) with a face down Needle Ceiling.

Turn Player activates Needle Ceiling. The chain containing only Needle Ceiling resolves. All face up monsters are destroyed. Ebon Magician Curran never got to activate.
 
Tkwiget said:
If lingering effects can be chained to, then why did John and Skey say they don't form a chain of any kind? Lingering effects have no Spell Speed from what I can gather since I see them having no activation timing of any kind and just a resolution timing.
I changed my subject to trigger effects without warning, sorry.

Yeah, I agree that these lingering effects dont use the chain because they involve usually some kind of game mechanincs. I mean when you "resolve" the lingering effect of Lightforce Sword you arent resolving an effect really - the effect wears off and you're only executing its consequenses. Same with Change of Heart at the end phase for example. Or Dimensionhole.

But if the card involved is face-up on the field then it's not an effect wearing off, but a trigger effect. My question is if I have 2 trigger effects with ss2 can I chain them together? I ask because they say these phase triggers dont use SEGOC but are activated and resolved 1 at a time. Or can I chain a ss2 trigger to the ss1 one? Can I chain with a ss2 trigger at all?

EDIT: And I think when you special summon a monster with Last Will you are also using a game mechanic (enabled by Last Will's effect) that allows you to do so, so I think you could negate that with Horn of Heaven, Black Horn of Heaven etc. So you wouldnt chain RO but negate the summon since no 'effect' as in activate/resolve is involved (like the XYZ fusions).
 
Tkwidget said:
Player 1 has a face up Defense Position Blast Juggler, Sangan, Witch of the Black Forest, and a face up attack position Ebon Magician Curran and Blast Juggler. Player 1 also has a Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys in his Graveyard that was destroyed last turn. Player 1 also has a face up Attack Position Spear Cretin that activated its Flip Effect one or more turns ago and only needs to be sent to his Graveyard to get the effect.

Please ignore this:

Wouldn't the judge cry foul at Player 1 having 6 monters on the field?

Ok, now b-slap me for not contributing anything usefull... sorry just had to laugh at that one.
 
Lol, looks like I did make a tiny error. I don't feel like going back and fixing it. Aside from that we should look at the actual game mechanics of the scenario rather than that stupid mistake I made.
 
Fury said:
EDIT: And I think when you special summon a monster with Last Will you are also using a game mechanic (enabled by Last Will's effect) that allows you to do so, so I think you could negate that with Horn of Heaven, Black Horn of Heaven etc. So you wouldnt chain RO but negate the summon since no 'effect' as in activate/resolve is involved (like the XYZ fusions).

With last will you're in the resolution of a card effect and so it can't be chained to. That being said, you wouldn't be able to use Solemn Judgement, Horn of Heaven, Black Horn of Heaven either as they would have had to negate Last Will at activation.
 
Tkwiget said:
Lol, looks like I did make a tiny error. I don't feel like going back and fixing it. Aside from that we should look at the actual game mechanics of the scenario rather than that stupid mistake I made.

Some of the effects won't activate. Bottomless Shifting Sand is during P2 stand-by phase.. (and we're going to NOT ask about the full field with Revival Jam.)

The best I can say is after a lingering effect resolves, the mandatory effect resolevs. Like if Malice Ascendant sent a Peguin Knight to the graveyard, you couln't acivate Sacred Pheonix of Nephthys' effect and revival Jam would not come back.
 
John Danker said:
With last will you're in the resolution of a card effect and so it can't be chained to. That being said, you wouldn't be able to use Solemn Judgement, Horn of Heaven, Black Horn of Heaven either as they would have had to negate Last Will at activation.
You could be right here, however "applying" the effect of Last Will cant be chained to which means it doesnt activate/resolve in the classic way which also could mean you could negate the summon performed here.
 
Absird said:
Some of the effects won't activate. Bottomless Shifting Sand is during P2 stand-by phase.. (and we're going to NOT ask about the full field with Revival Jam.)

The best I can say is after a lingering effect resolves, the mandatory effect resolevs. Like if Malice Ascendant sent a Peguin Knight to the graveyard, you couln't acivate Sacred Pheonix of Nephthys' effect and revival Jam would not come back.
You're right and wrong at the same time.

By the time Revival Jam hits the field there's plenty of room. I've gone over the scenario and omitting Spear Cretin completely still makes it so Revival Jam can come back. Reason for this is because when Sacred Phoenix was summoned P1 chained Torrential to the destruction effect and nuked all the monsters. This enabled P1 to bring out Treeborn and Jam without any problems.

Fury said:
You could be right here, however "applying" the effect of Last Will cant be chained to which means it doesnt activate/resolve in the classic way which also could mean you could negate the summon performed here.
Lingering effects resolve. They don't activate. So you can't negate the summoning with things like Solemn Judgment or Horn of Heaven. It isn't an effect that "applies" itself. Those would be continuous effects, like Fire Princess.
 
Fury said:
You could be right here, however "applying" the effect of Last Will cant be chained to which means it doesnt activate/resolve in the classic way which also could mean you could negate the summon performed here.

That's exactly what I said in different words of which you quoted.

Tkwiget....don't start with Fire Princess....please? We don't need THAT in the mix, this thread is comfusing enough!
 
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