My mind isn't working at work

J

John Danker

Administrator
I'm at work and my mind is on it...but I came across a question that I need to answer for someone...I way too tunnel visioned at work <shrug> and not a good multi-tasker...

If a player uses premature / CoTH and special summons Spirit Reaper we know Spirit Reaper is destroyed, however....if Spirit Reaper's effect is a continuous effect (such as with Berserk Gorila) it doesn't use the chain...

So I'm assuming that a player couldn't at any time use Torrential Tribute in chain to the activation of Spirit Reaper's effect.....or is my tunnel vision at work clouding my thought process?

<Disclaimer>
Please forgive my lack of vision of great ones of the City should I have offended you with this question.....my brain is full of numbers and geometry and it NOT thinking Yugioh.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
I'll second DJ there. You can chain TT to the activation of Premie/Call, and it will resolve without issue. Once it comes back, then Reaper's effect will kick in and destroy itself. The other option would be to wait until things are done if Skill Drain is out on the field, I'd wager
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dillie-O said:
I'll second DJ there. You can chain TT to the activation of Premie/Call, and it will resolve without issue...
Click to expand...
Wait, what? You can't do that. You can chain to the Summon, but not to the effect that would Summon the monster, because at that point the Summon hasn't happened yet, so you can't activate TT because its timing is incorrect.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dillie-O said:
I'll second DJ there. You can chain TT to the activation of Premie/Call, and it will resolve without issue. Once it comes back, then Reaper's effect will kick in and destroy itself. The other option would be to wait until things are done if Skill Drain is out on the field, I'd wager
Click to expand...
How can you chain "Torrential Tribute" to "Premature Burial"/"Call of the Haunted"? Nothing has been summoned yet....lol.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dillie-O said:
I'll second DJ there. You can chain TT to the activation of Premie/Call, and it will resolve without issue. Once it comes back, then Reaper's effect will kick in and destroy itself. The other option would be to wait until things are done if Skill Drain is out on the field, I'd wager
Click to expand...
Torrential Tribute can only be activated in response to a summoning. If you activate Premature Burial or Call of the Haunted and then chain Torrential Tribute to it, you would have illegally activated Torrential Tribute.

Chain Link 1: Premature Burial/Call of the Haunted
Chain Link 2: Torrential Tribute

Illegal chain block.

You can't chain Torrential Tribute to Premature Burial or Call of the Haunted because of the timing issue. Call of the Haunted may be in situation where it's activated in response to a summoning, which would allow Torrential Tribute to have a chance to chain to it. We aren't talking about any such scenario.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I would think that the continuous effect triggering and destroying Spirit Reaper would prevent the timing for Torrential Tribute, since this effect does not create a chain it simply happens, changing the last fact of the game before a response chain could be started. This is similar to why Goldd and Silva are immune to Torrential.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Here's the way I'm seeing it in my glazed state of mind...

TP activates Premature Burial and targets Spirit Reaper
No additons to the chain

Premature Burial resolves and special summons Spirit Reaper to the field.

Spirit Reaper's continuous effect activates (doesn't use the chain because it's continuous and therefore TT is unable to chain to it)

Spirit Reaper's effect resolves

Timing is incorrect for TT because the last thing to happen was the resolution of Spirit Reaper's effect and not the summon of a monster.

Am I off my rocker?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
John Danker said:
but if Spirit Reaper destroys itself before Torrential Tribute can be activated then the last thing to resolve isn't the summon of a monster but Spirit Reaper's effect resolving.
Click to expand...

Continuous effects aren't separate "events". (Probably some exceptions)

For example a Level 4 monster is summoned and Level Limit - Area B is active the monster will be switched to defense, the timing will still be correct for Torrential Tribute. (The ruling under Mobius says taht Mobius will NOT miss it's timing)

Spirit Reaper will not stop Torrential Tribute from being activated.

(Unless a ruling comes out to say that it is an "exception")
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The continuous effect may not be an "event" but is Spirit Reaper being destroyed and sent to the graveyard an "event"?

Here again, as I've mentioned numerous times, I really believe the definition of an event / last thing to resolve / action needs to be defined more clearly.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If its a continuous effect, it's already active on the field the moment it's Special Summoned. The only part I see that's continuous about Spirit Reaper is his "not destroyed in battle" effect. The "self-destruct" effect that Spirit Reaper has when Spell, Trap, or Monster Effects that target him will only activate when his targetted.

Destroy this card when it is targeted by the effect of a Spell, Trap, or Effect Monster.

I could very well be off my rocker on that one too. XD
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Tkwiget said:
If its a continuous effect, it's already active on the field the moment it's Special Summoned. The only part I see that's continuous about Spirit Reaper is his "not destroyed in battle" effect. The "self-destruct" effect that Spirit Reaper has when Spell, Trap, or Monster Effects that target him will only activate when his targetted.

Destroy this card when it is targeted by the effect of a Spell, Trap, or Effect Monster.

I could very well be off my rocker on that one too. XD
Click to expand...

The effect is considered "Continuous" by Konami, although it does happen when the trigger has been met it does not begin a chain and thus is not a "Trigger" effect. If that makes sense. :)

This is really one of the gaping hole areas for UDE/Konami. The "last event" part of game mechanics has so many loose threads that truly should be addressed and explained better.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sorry, that's what I get for typing on my way out, I was thinking the classic scenario where you destroy the equip card, not the monster itself....just had to throw in my apologies while the discussion continues 8^D

EDIT: Spirit Reaper has a continuous effect in that it cannot be chained to. However, its effect definitely has a trigger point, which is when it has been targeted by a card effect. That said, we all know that you have to wait for the resolution of the effect before determining if it was destroyed.

EDIT EDIT: I think you would define it to some extent like Last Will. The resolution of the "state" is continuous in that it cannot be chained to, but it is indeed triggered by a monster going from your side of the field to the graveyard. Novastar is AWESOME with these things. Maybe he'll pop in...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Just glad that there is room for doubt and that I wasn't reading too much into the quesiton....sometimes I over think things...but it appears there is certainly room for discussion here.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I activate Premature Burial and target Spirit Reaper. Spirit Reaper is Special Summoned. His continuous effect activates. However, this doesn't erase the fact that he was summoned. We know summonings are events. You can't chain to continuous monster effects, thus, Torrential Tribute can't be activated.

Very interesting scenario. Continuous monster effects always establish their effect on the field when their face up on the field. Evidence of this is Jinzo v.s. Torrential Tribute and Bottomless Trap Hole. Same for Spell Canceller v.s. Book of Moon (activated in response to the summon).

Would this be at all different from our Spirit Reaper scenario? I think it might have some kind of relationship to it. I believe the fact that Spirit Reaper's "self-destruct" effect is considered to be continuous eliminates the possiblity of activating Torrential Tribute completely.

Maybe I'm just thinking out loud. I honestly have no clue. XD
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top