Narrow Pass

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
I wanna make sure I understand this card completely.

When it says "up to 2 additional" that means after my first initial Normal Summoning or Set I get for that turn or does it count that? From the way the card is worded and the rulings explain how the card works, it would mean that I can first Normal Summoning to get my regular Normal Summoning and then use Narrow Pass' effect to get two additional ones. I'm trying to make sure that this card does what I think it does.
 
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You seem to think that this card gives a bonus.
To me (because of the art and name) it seems it makes a restriction.

IMO after you activate it, it starts counting the Normal Summons conducted by the players. If a player had Normal Summoned 2 monsters after this card was activated that player cant Normal Summon any more monsters until this card leaves the field. It restricts Normal Summons only.
UDE FAQ said:
"Narrow Pass" does not restrict Special Summons or Flip Summons.
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I really dont think it gives you additonal Normal Summons.
 
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I don't think you're really reading the card. It uses the word "additional" several times when you look the card up.

"Narrow Pass" can only be activated when Player A has 2 or fewer monsters and Player B has 2 or fewer monsters. So if there are 3 monsters in play (2 controlled by A and 1 by B) you can activate "Narrow Pass". But if either player controls 3 or more monsters on his side of the field then you cannot activate this card.
Once "Narrow Pass" is activate, as long as it remains face-up on the field, Player A can Normal Summon or Set 2 up to 2 additional monsters, and Player B can Normal Summon or Set up to 2 additional monsters. It is helpful to place counters on "Narrow Pass" to keep track.
If "Narrow Pass" is activate, and a player Normal Summons his 2 permitted monsters afterwards, if 1 of those is destroyed then he cannot replace it with another Normal Summon. Each player gets 2 additional Normal Summons or Sets, no matter what happens to those monsters afterwards.
"Narrow Pass" does not restrict Special Summons or Flip Summons.

Btw, artwork has nothing to do with how a card works. It's just one thing -- artwork.

"This card can only be activated when both players have 2 monsters or less on their respective sides of the field. Both players can only Normal Summon up to 2 additional monsters on their sides of the field."

What it's telling me is that I get up to two additional Normal Summonings. So this also tells me if I have one monster on the field, I could Normal Summon a monster and then from Narrow Pass' effect Normal Summon another monster to leave my field with three monsters. This is how I understand how Narrow Pass works in a game mechanic and logical angle.
 
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Sorry but that is incorrect. Narrow Pass restricts the amount of monsters, not aloows extra Monsters being normal summoned. Ref: last ruling: "¢ "Narrow Pass" does not restrict Special Summons or Flip Summons. I abuse it in my Dino Deck. Keeps the opponent sans Monsters.

Thus the text reads "...can only Normal Summon..." the term "additional" refers to the cards that are already on the field, so that the most cards that would ever be on the field after it's activation is 4 each.
 
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That's not the intent of Narrow Pass. It's a card designed to limit the amount of normal summons. Once the card has resolved to the field you're allowed two normal summons after that (not two additonal normal summons that turn or any other additional normal summons any other turn as with Ultimate Offering) After that, no other normal summons are allowed.

It is indeed a card text that could be easily misunderstood as with so many of the card translations.
 
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So, to answer Tkwiget's initial question....

If you activate it after your Normal Summon or Set for the turn, then you will get to Normal Summon or Set your additional 2 monsters as long as "Narrow Pass" remains face-up on the field.

If you activate it before your Normal Summon or Set for the turn, then when/if you do Normal Summon or Set for that turn, it will count as 1 of the 2 you have available to you.


Hope this helps!
 
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John, if Narrow Pass was designed to function like that then the rulings and text don't even make any implication of that. So all that information is pretty useless. How I'm seeing Narrow Pass function is, yes, limiting the amount of Normal Summons you can have to up to two additional Normal Summonings.

This card seriously needs to be remade correctly. It doesn't function the way the card text implies it does and it doesn't have clear rulings that explain how it works like we have for many other cards. I guess this was one of many cards that are low on the radar scan to get fixed. =/ <shrugs>
 
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It's also interesting that the original text PGD-097 had "Normal Summon or Set" in it, but the errata and DR1-EN045 have only Normal Summon. But the FAQ still has Set in it.

When they do an errata why dont they check the rulings for it as well??? I dont get it.
 
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Well the card is older than dirt and card errata on text is easier to get done from UDE than a ruling change. I guess I can wait until I can ask around with other L2 and L3 judges. Heck, I might even get to talk to someone on the UDE R&D team in the future about this stuff -- not that they don't hear enough of it already probably.
 
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Tkwiget said:
John, if Narrow Pass was designed to function like that then the rulings and text don't even make any implication of that. So all that information is pretty useless. How I'm seeing Narrow Pass function is, yes, limiting the amount of Normal Summons you can have to up to two additional Normal Summonings.

This card seriously needs to be remade correctly. It doesn't function the way the card text implies it does and it doesn't have clear rulings that explain how it works like we have for many other cards. I guess this was one of many cards that are low on the radar scan to get fixed. =/ <shrugs>
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This is one of those situations where the more you read something, the more you read "into" it.

"The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog as he lay sleeping under the yellow sun"

Now, ignoring capitalization and punctuation, at first read, it seems like a normal sentence talking about a fox jumping over a dog. However, the more you read it, you could say that the description of the fox could actually be its genus name, "Quick Brown", as well as "Lazy" for the dog. Realistically, there could very well be a "Quick Brown Fox", or just a "very fast fox" who happened to find a sleeping dog to jump over.

What I'm getting at is, "reading", and comprehension of what you read, go hand and hand. If you are looking for one thing, while being subjective, you may very well find what it is you are looking to see, but it doesnt make it correct.
 
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The thing is, Narrow Pass in no way implies that you get any "additional" summons on top of your Normal Summon. It says "Both players can only Normal Summon up to 2 additional monsters on their sides of the field."

This is very clear text. Special permission to summon additional monsters would not be phrased this way, as the phrase "you can only" is, as Fury implied, a restriction and not a bonus. If an effect says "you can only activate this effect once per turn" we know it's a restriction on the number of time you could ordinarily activate an effect. If an effect says "you can only equip this card to a monster on your side of the field", then we know its a restriction on what would normally be a legal target for an Equip Card. If an effect says "you can only activate this effect during your Standby Phase", then we know that this is a restriction on the timing of when the card the normally be activated, even if the effect could not normally be activated during a Standby Phase, it's still a restriction because it cannot be activated at its normal time.

Narrow Pass says "Both players can only Normal Summon up to 2 additional monsters on their sides of the field." So that is a restriction on the number of times you could ordinarily Normal Summon a monster. Bot notice in every case, the key phrase to remember is "what you could normally do." It's a restriction on what you can normally do. No additional permission is granted in the text to do anything outside of the normal rules of gameplay.


This reminds me a fellow at Pojo, who insisted that because the text on Dimension Wall stated "you can only activate this card when your opponent declares an attack with a monster.", that because you cannot attack with anything but a monster card, then the phrase "attack with a monster" must mean "in battle with another monster and therefore, cannot be activated against a direct attack. His logic was "well, what else can you attack with? A Spell Card?" He didn't understand that "attack with a monster" means just that, and didn't imply any additions or subtractions.
 
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Masterwoo0, so you're saying that Narrow Pass would do this?

Player A has one monster on the field and a face down Narrow Pass. Player B has no monsters. Player A activates Narrow Pass. Player A now can Normal Summon up to two monsters?

Player A has no monster on the field and a face down Narrow Pass. Player B has no monsters. Player A activates Narrow Pass. Player A now can Normal Summon up to two monsters?
 
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Assuming the activation requirements are met, once you flip up Narrow Pass, you can Normal Summon up to 2 more Monsters as long as Narrow Pass remains on the field. That is the same if you had 0, 1, or 2 monsters on the field when it was flipped up.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Masterwoo0, so you're saying that Narrow Pass would do this?

Player A has one monster on the field and a face down Narrow Pass. Player B has no monsters. Player A activates Narrow Pass. Player A now can Normal Summon up to two monsters?
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That's exactly right. And Player B can summon two additional monsters. But, again, within the normal rules of gameplay. You can only Normal Summon once per turn. So if it's still active then, then your limit is two more for both players.

Player A has no monster on the field and a face down Narrow Pass. Player B has no monsters. Player A activates Narrow Pass. Player A now can Normal Summon up to two monsters?
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No monsters is still "2 monsters or less" for activation purposes. And if we're still in the Player A's Main Phase (or haven't gotten there yet), then if nothing is preventing him from summoning he can use one of his summons now. But only one this turn, since he's not been granted special permission to Normal Summon more then what he normally could per turn.


Think about it this way TK. If what your thinking were true, then it would apply to both players, wouldn't it? Then what's preventing the non-Turn Player from Normal Summoning 2 additional monsters as well as the Turn Player? Why keep one normal rule of gameplay in check and not the other?
 
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My first initial understanding of Narrow Pass made the Turn Player and only the Turn Player have his number of Normal Summons increased up to two more times. That means, he could Normal Summon for his regular time, and then two more times. However, this has been explained to me as false and I accept that. The word we need to not use is the word "additional" since that's the source of my confusion. Additional normal summonings is telling me after my regular one. See how that has been confusing the heck out of me?
 
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Tkwiget said:
My first initial understanding of Narrow Pass made the Turn Player and only the Turn Player have his number of Normal Summons increased up to two more times. That means, he could Normal Summon for his regular time, and then two more times. However, this has been explained to me as false and I accept that. The word we need to not use is the word "additional" since that's the source of my confusion. Additional normal summonings is telling me after my regular one. See how that has been confusing the heck out of me?
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I would have thought the last sentence "Both players can only Normal Summon up to 2 additional monsters on their sides of the field." would have cleared, at least that aspect, up for you. :D

You just have to remember that "additional" doesn't necessarily mean the timing or permissions change. Like, my wife gets an additional paycheck certain months when an especially long month has 5 Thursdays instead of 4. However, she still has to wait to get that check on Thursday. It's an additional check, but the time she normally receives it, doesn't change. Only one per week.
 
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For me, the qualifiers of "only" set the limits and are demonstrative of restriction. Comparing it to Ultimate Offering (which, of course has changed its text..what was the original?) which says, "...Normal summon or set 1 extra monster...." the "can only" seems to stand out as an intent on limitation. Plus the "...if 1 of those is destroyed then he cannot replace it with another Normal Summon..." Why not? Restricted.

As for the initial summoning, even if it did give you the ability to aditional summon, like Ultimate Offering (which it doesn't), it would begin the count of how many are normal summoned after it resolves. So any previously Normal Summoned only counts at activation. But Skey said that already.

Of course, that brings up another question.... You have 2 monsters on your side of the field and your opponent has one. You activate (because the activation requirements are met) Narrow Pass. You then chain your previously F/U Ultimate Offering 3x. End Chain. You resolve Ultimate Offering Normal Summoning 3 additional Monsters. Then you go to resolve Narrow Pass. Now you have 5, your opponent has one. You both can still Only Normal Summon 2 more Monsters. Right?
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
For me, the qualifiers of "only" set the limits and are demonstrative of restriction. Comparing it to Ultimate Offering (which, of course has changed its text..what was the original?) which says, "...Normal summon or set 1 extra monster...." the "can only" seems to stand out as an intent on limitation. Plus the "...if 1 of those is destroyed then he cannot replace it with another Normal Summon..." Why not? Restricted.
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I've got the old text, It says: "At the cost of 500 Life Points per monster, a player is allowed an extra Normal Summon or Set."
But it was supposed to played the way it reads now. Bad, bad translating.

Of course, that brings up another question.... You have 2 monsters on your side of the field and your opponent has one. You activate (because the activation requirements are met) Narrow Pass. You then chain your previously F/U Ultimate Offering 3x. End Chain. You resolve Ultimate Offering Normal Summoning 3 additional Monsters. Then you go to resolve Narrow Pass. Now you have 5, your opponent has one. You both can still Only Normal Summon 2 more Monsters. Right?
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It won't apply it's restriction until it resolves. The activation was correct, and that's all the effect really cares about. Thing is, Narrow Pass pays absolutely no attention to monsters on the field once it's fully resolved. All it will look at now is the number of times you and your opponent try to Normal Summon after that. And since you have an Ultimate Offering in play, you could have conceivable used your two Normal Summons now, if you hadn't just jammed up your field.
 
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