nats ?

[cuzwbd]

nationals questionreading metagame article - semi finals between adam corn & micheal bueno. in the last game, last paragraph, there was reference to card trooper being pumped while banisher of the radiance was on field... or so it seemed...did i miss something there? i did not think that would work.... wasn't that ruled a cost?

 

[EmeraldDragon]

It was ruled a cost. Then not everything gets caught when the tension is as high as nats.

 

[krazykidpsx]

thats the reason why its called cheating.

at a level that high, if you do, pull a fast one like that, you can just say, well its the tension or nerves, and all you will get is a slap in the wrist.

while in fact it should be loss of the match.

at that level you should be good enough of a player to not do thouse mistakes.

 

[roadhouse007]

it is a play outside of the official rules, but you must remember one key thing:

The judges ruling always stands as true. If you appeal to the head judge, his ruling is FINAL and even if it doesn't match the FAQ rules, a ruling has been given and must stand.

Sucks sometimes, because we all make mistakes. But if the judge ruled it as OK, nothing could be done. Except that judge is gonna get flamed, hard, probably on pojo.

I agree with krazykid though. The judge should have ruled that an effect was activated illegaly and issued a GAME loss. Although that would have been controversial as well, being it was game 3 of the semifinals at nationals. But that is something you need to be prepared for as a judge. You have to make a call on the spot, and not everyone will agree with you.

Tough luck for the player with Banisher though (I haven't read it myself, probably Bueno, right?). He's probably not too happy about that.

 

[babyarm]

Also, as much as the Metagame reporters try, they don't always get every bit of the game state, so it's possible that a legal play was made, and the report just doesn't reflect that.

 

[John Danker]

If it was used while Bannisher was face up on the field, even if caught it shouldn't be ruled a game loss. This situation is easily repaired. The order of the cards sent to the graveyard is known. As long as play hadn't progressed past the cards being sent to the graveyard simply placing them back on top of the deck with both players having knowledge of them fixes the scenario, just like a card that was picked up but not added to the hand would be ruled. This would be a PE-Minor and both players should be issued a warning as both players were responsabile for the error.

 

[krazykidpsx]

the instance a card is viewed, from the deck and become knowledge to the owner the game state has been changed, aslong as its not part of an ability.

Reversal Quiz states to reveal the card once the ability of the card is in progress, You also call out the card type before revealed, so lets say a player viewed said card during their draw phase, and just placed it back on top because everybody would tend to believe that this would repair the game state, it infact doesnt.

the next play is reversal quiz and what happens? of course they are going to get it right, the suppose repair wasnt really a repair at all.

at hobby leagues, regionals, etc... small events, sure its a small repreive, but at a level of that as National and Champs, I dont know... Its too little of a repreive for a Professional player to recieve.

 

[John Danker]

Just because a game state has been changed doesn't make it unrepairable, this holds even more true when it was the responsability of both players to carry out a card effect (or not carry one out as is the case here) A game loss because of a changed game state in all cases is a common misconception. I'd like to encourage all our members to start looking into the new UDE boards, in paticular the player management forum where there has been a lot of great discussion about such issues.

 

[krazykidpsx]

that makes the players lazier, If a player is playing a card is because they know how it works and the rules behind it.

They cant just trow in a bunch of cards, and say, "oh well i didnt know" for everytime something gets called out of them. Remember I stated for Higher Level events this should be enforced, at the low range its fine. but at higher, no defently something that is unacceptable.


I played the card, and hence forth I should know what to do with it, not my opponent.

 

[CPMillerWV]

that makes the players lazier, If a player is playing a card is because they know how it works and the rules behind it.

They cant just trow in a bunch of cards, and say, "oh well i didnt know" for everytime something gets called out of them. Remember I stated for Higher Level events this should be enforced, at the low range its fine. but at higher, no defently something that is unacceptable.


I played the card, and hence forth I should know what to do with it, not my opponent.

The player should know his cards; HOWEVER, BOTH players are responcible. If your opponant playes a card that you are not familar with, YOU should read it! BOTH of you should ensure that the game continues correctly and ensure that problems an/or questions are resolved properly. If you need help, YOU should call for a judge. That is why we are there.

Also, if a player activates an effect improperly, say as listed above, and THEN playes Question, of course he should know what is next, and the player who played Question is the one who made the inital mistake and will suffer. If such play WOULD give him an advantage however, the question would be wheather ANOTHER penility is needed.

Now, if Monster gate would be played and he uses the 'improper' knowledge of DMoC being the next monster, again, there would be supect of the need for a P-30!

 

[krazykidpsx]

The player should know his cards; HOWEVER, BOTH players are responcible. If your opponant playes a card that you are not familar with, YOU should read it! BOTH of you should ensure that the game continues correctly and ensure that problems an/or questions are resolved properly. If you need help, YOU should call for a judge. That is why we are there.

Also, if a player activates an effect improperly, say as listed above, and THEN playes Question, of course he should know what is next, and the player who played Question is the one who made the inital mistake and will suffer. If such play WOULD give him an advantage however, the question would be wheather ANOTHER penility is needed.

Now, if Monster gate would be played and he uses the 'improper' knowledge of DMoC being the next monster, again, there would be supect of the need for a P-30!

thats what I mean when it comes to "reparible" situations, sometimes we dont know if what we are doing is actually repairing it.

Thats oviously the differences between UDE's Rules Team and The DCI for MTG and their other games.

see lets say a player accidently saw a second card whle draw, thats automatic game loss. Why? because they shouldnt even remotely attempt to draw more than one card when told to draw only 1 card, or above what ever they need to draw.

of course, the reparible thing is to place it back on top, but by placing it on top you throw your selves into these situations.

and since the play was perfectly legal, what would you judge for it? would the player recive a high reprive or would the play still be legit?

thats brings up a very very important game play decision, because the play was perfectly lega, but the problem was that it was done Right after a "repair" in game state.

repairable state would be,

Activating call of the haunted targeting a creature that cant be targeted in the graveyard.

oviously you would go back and repair the game state right there and there, once a new creature hits the grave though, what would you do then?

again, some people dont know their own cards, there have been plenty of times where I have misread a card [usually during pre-releases] and yes it happens, but again that is why you should ask to be allowed to read the card.

UDE does have rules for these things, heck a player has to ask permission before looking at a opponents graveyard. While it infact is "Public Knowledge" But for UDE, its more of a, If you dont ask, then you cant do.

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

see lets say a player accidently saw a second card whle draw, thats automatic game loss.

Actually, it would only be a game loss if that second card had been added to the hand. Otherwise, it is a warning, show it to the opponent, replace it to the top of the deck and move on.

 

[krazykidpsx]

For UDE or DCI?

because The DCI [MTG], ive seen ALOT of heads at pre-releases and even Regional events that get Game losses.
One of My friends was the case of this too, He didnt do it on purpose but because he saw the card the opponent cought it and called a judge, lets say game 1 was a 0-1 automatic.

But UDE again only gives reprieves, put it back on top and then move on.