necrofear against manticore of darkness

[daydreamer]

If I remove 3 fiend monsters to special summon darknecrofear and my oppenent response torrential tribute ...
all monsters are destroyed, and then i end my turn, what happens if my oppenent discards a beast type monster to special summon manticore from the grave (effect manticore), but i have the effect of necrofear also in the endphase

what comes first ???

 

[soulwarrior]

OK, now, that I read the IO // Mirage example for some times... *lol*

I think this is the same situation... so the Turn Player has priority, meaning he CAN resolve the effect of his card (Dark Necrofear).
If he doesn't want to resolve it at this time (which would be the wise choice... *lol*), he passes priority to his opponent.
Then his opponent can decide, if he wants to resolve his cards' effect (Manticore). Because this would be just stupid (Necrofear would take control then... ), the opponent also passes Priority.

Now, that both players have passed Priority once, the Turn Player HAS TO resolve his mandatory effect and therfore, the effect of Necrofear just disappears, because ther is no available monster at his opponents side of the field.

THEN, the opponent has to resolve his mandatory effect and can special summon the Manticore with its effect!

Now I want to get this theory approved... let's call bishop xD!

soul

 

[soulwarrior]

Looks good to me.

Thanks a lot!

In this case... I'll write a short article about this game mechanic and put it in my FAQ's for the game.

soul

 

[densetsu_x]

OK, now, that I read the IO // Mirage example for some times... *lol*

I think this is the same situation... so the Turn Player has priority, meaning he CAN resolve the effect of his card (Dark Necrofear).
If he doesn't want to resolve it at this time (which would be the wise choice... *lol*), he passes priority to his opponent.
Then his opponent can decide, if he wants to resolve his cards' effect (Manticore). Because this would be just stupid (Necrofear would take control then... ), the opponent also passes Priority.

Now, that both players have passed Priority once, the Turn Player HAS TO resolve his mandatory effect and therfore, the effect of Necrofear just disappears, because ther is no available monster at his opponents side of the field.

THEN, the opponent has to resolve his mandatory effect and can special summon the Manticore with its effect!

Now I want to get this theory approved... let's call bishop xD!

soul

Well, the theory has 1 thing slightly wrong with it though the end result would end up being the same.

"Dark Necrofear"'s effect is manditory so it has to be resolved during the End Phase.
"Manticore of Darkness"'s effect is optional so the other player can decide not to resolve it or simply wait until the turn player had to resolve DN first and then afterwards can sacrifice the appropriate monster to bring the Manticore back to the field.

Also with the Imperial Order/Mirage example, isn't it the same person who has both cards on his/her side of the field in which case he can choose which to resolve first or am I thinking of something else?

- Andrew

 

[Maester Bacman]

Also with the Imperial Order/Mirage example, isn't it the same person who has both cards on his/her side of the field in which case he can choose which to resolve first or am I thinking of something else?

From the FAQ:

"If both players have simultaneous effects being activated, then the "turn player" (the player taking his/her turn) automatically has his/her effect become Step 1 of the chain. The turn player has no choice but to be Step 1 of the chain, although if he/she has multiple effects being activated, he/she does choose which of those effects is Step 1. "

You are not thinking of something else.

 

[Dlanaan]

The problem is that neither Imperial Order nor Mirage of Nightmare simultaneously resolve. They just need to resolve at some point during the Standby Phase (in a similar way that Berserk Gorilla needs to attack at some point during the Battle Phase). At the start of the Standby Phase, both Imperial Order and Mirage of Nightmare get little signs on them that say 'Resolve me'. You can't leave the Standby Phase until both those things are dealt with, however, you can perform actions (activate Traps, comment on your opponent's new hairstyle, etc.) before you go to resolve them. When you do decide to resolve an effect, the other one is not dependant upon it (if you resolve Mirage of Nightmare, you do not need to immediately resolve Imperial Order) so they do not go on a chain.

This falls under the category of effects where if both you and your opponent have effects to resolve, the Turn Player may either resolve an effect or try to get the opponent to resolve one. If the opponent chooses not to resolve one, then the Turn Player MUST resolve an effect.

Note from one of the previous posts: The only mandatory effect in Necrofear vs. Manticore is Necrofear's. Manticore's is completely optional and can therefore wait until Necrofear attempts to do its thing. While the effect of Manticore is limited to being used in the End Phase, it does not have to be used.

 

[helpoemer316]

Wow... I was right for once, .

If you guys can't understand soulwarriors esplanation, just check mine on the first page of this thread. I would like to keep this thread open, but if it gets too much discussion I'll close it, question is answered.

Good Day, almer:

 

[anthonyj]

It's the turn players choice.  Since in this question you're the turn player, you can choose which effect happens first, just say to them "It's my end phase, I'm choosing to allow you to activate Manticore's effect." and force them to activate the effect of Manticore of Darkness, of course, they can choose not to activate it, in which both monsters stay in the graveyard.  But the end result would be that Manticore is special summoned and then Necrofear returns taking control of him if this scenerio were to be played out correctly.

If it was his turn and Necrofear was destroyed at the same time as his Manticore, he could do the very same thing to you, force you to activate Necrofear's effect first then after her effect fizzles (granted if there is no monsters on the field) then he can special summon Manticore of Darkness onto the field and the turn will then continue to end.

Remember that the turn player always has "priority" over effects.

That is the exact opposite of what Bishop approved. Final answer Turn Player must resolve after passing once, opponent may wait until after Necrofear fizzles and then summon Manticore free and clear.

 

[helpoemer316]

That is the exact opposite of what Bishop approved. Final answer Turn Player must resolve after passing once, opponent may wait until after Necrofear fizzles and then summon Manticore free and clear.

After reading what I originally posted, you're right, but I simply left out the other portion, I haven't had the best week myself. I've had this family call me over to take a look at their computer every night this week... I'm just getting tired of it, lol.

In any case, everyone understands the principle of the matter.

 

[anthonyj]

Man, do I know what that's like. Relatives, neighbors or co-workers they all think since you know how to fix their computer you should just volunteer all of your time to fix what they (or Microsoft) screwed up.