Necrovalley Vs Rope of life

[ArmosaDrako]

Necrovalley" will NOT negate effects that are activated when a card is sent TO the Graveyard

Necrovalley" will NOT negate effects that do not designate a card or cards in the Graveyard as a target. So "Necrovalley" will NOT negate the effects of "Dark Necrofear" (when destroyed and sent to the Graveyard), "Revival Jam", "Winged Sage Falcos", "Twin-Headed Behemoth", "Mystical Knight of Jackal", and "Red-Moon Baby".

With this said dirrectly from the FAQ....Does Necrovalley negate the effect of Rope of Life since rope of life doesn't designate a target, like monster reborn, It's the monster just sent to the graveyard as long as you pay the cost?

I rulled that Rope of Life can be used since it doesn't seem to specificaly designate a target and has somewhat the same effect as Red Moon Baby which is NOT negated by necrovalley. Was this a correct ruling?

 

[Dlanaan]

Don't have a confirmation or denial, but I would say your logic is sound. Rope of Life does not 'seem' targeting, but it might be.

 

[Lustermaster]

No, I don`t think that ruling is good, but it is yous my thoughts. Necrovalley doesn`t let any player to change the number of cards in the graveyard, and rope of life takes one monster from it so i think that ROL`s effect is lost.

 

[ArmosaDrako]

No, I don`t think that ruling is good, but it is yous my thoughts. Necrovalley doesn`t let any player to change the number of cards in the graveyard, and rope of life takes one monster from it so i think that ROL`s effect is lost.

Yes but Red Moon Baby also removes a monster sent to the graveyard which changes the number of cards in the graveyard but it is NOT negated by necrovalley...see the confusion?

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

I rulled that Rope of Life can be used since it doesn't seem to specificaly designate a target and has somewhat the same effect as Red Moon Baby which is NOT negated by necrovalley.  Was this a correct ruling?

Magic Cylinder, Trap Hole, Sakuretsu Armor have automatic effects as well, yet they still designate a target. I would argue that if a card decides what monster to effect at Activation it would be an effect that specifically designates a target. Bottomless Trap Hole is an exception, likely because it can effect multiple targets, but in Japan it's considered to be a Targeting effect.

I would say that necrovalley would Negate Rope of Life.

 

[OKShadow]

I rulled that Rope of Life can be used since it doesn't seem to specificaly designate a target and has somewhat the same effect as Red Moon Baby which is NOT negated by necrovalley.  Was this a correct ruling?

Magic Cylinder, Trap Hole, Sakuretsu Armor have automatic effects as well, yet they still designate a target.  I would argue that if a card decides what monster to effect at Activation it would be an effect that specifically designates a target.  Bottomless Trap Hole is an exception, likely because it can effect multiple targets, but in Japan it's considered to be a Targeting effect.

I would say that necrovalley would Negate Rope of Life.

Here's the answer to that per Netrep on the basis of Rope of Life being equal to Monster Reborn:

Necrovalley negates any effect that designates a card or cards in the Graveyard as a target. So "Necrovalley" WILL negate the effect of: "Monster Reborn", "Premature Burial", "Call of the Haunted", "Question", "Backup Soldier", "Spear Cretin", "The Shallow Grave", "Magician of Faith", "Fiber Jar", "Penguin Knight", and "Agido".

Technically I would think Red-Moon should be negated as it is an effect that "involves graveyards" (Necrovalley's text) as it "targets" the monster just sent to the graveyard. But that's up to UDE and Konami to go over. As far as the searchers go and other similar effect monsters/traps/etc. I have no problem with their effects continuing through, but cards on the field manipulating the graveyard should totally be locked out with Necrovalley. After all technically Fiber Jar does not "target" specific cards in the graveyard, it "targets" the entire graveyard itself.

 

[ArmosaDrako]

Sounds ok, but again Rope of life you have no choice as to what monster to bring back once you activate it, it's the monster just sent to the graveyard, you don't get to choose like monster reborn, that's why it's different...Monster Reborn targets because you get to choose any monster (minus the ones with special summoning restrictions involving the graveyard) but Rope of Life is the last monster sent, no choice...I'm still waiting on a response from the judges list.

 

[Lustermaster]

Look, Rope of life does target a card, the monster sent to the graveyard by battle, you choose the target when you activate Rope of life, and it does change the number of cards in the graveyard so necrovalley would negate it.

 

[ArmosaDrako]

Look, Rope of life does target a card, the monster sent to the graveyard by battle, you choose the target when you activate Rope of life, and it does change the number of cards in the graveyard so necrovalley would negate it.

so red moon baby does the same then, you choose the target when you choose to attack the monster that is going to be special summoned? Wouldn't red moon baby also change the number of monsters in the graveyard?

 

[anthonyj]

Red-Moon Baby and Mystical Knight of Jackal apply an effect to the monster they destroy that brings them back from the graveyard when they destroy them. Rope of Life appears to be activated when the monster is sent to the graveyard so the question would be, is the monster targeted by Rope of Life in the graveyard when you activate Rope or is it on its way to the graveyard. If the monster is already in the grave then Necrovalley would negate it if it is still on its way then it should be able to come back.

 

[ArmosaDrako]

Red-Moon Baby and Mystical Knight of Jackal apply an effect to the monster they destroy that brings them back from the graveyard when they destroy them.  Rope of Life appears to be activated when the monster is sent to the graveyard so the question would be, is the monster targeted by Rope of Life in the graveyard when you activate Rope or is it on its way to the graveyard.  If the monster is already in the grave then Necrovalley would negate it if it is still on its way then it should be able to come back.

This sounds logical, I'm still waiting for an answer from the judges list. It is kind of confusing.

 

[OKShadow]

Red-Moon Baby and Mystical Knight of Jackal apply an effect to the monster they destroy that brings them back from the graveyard when they destroy them.  Rope of Life appears to be activated when the monster is sent to the graveyard so the question would be, is the monster targeted by Rope of Life in the graveyard when you activate Rope or is it on its way to the graveyard.  If the monster is already in the grave then Necrovalley would negate it if it is still on its way then it should be able to come back.

Right, Red-Moon and Ghost Knight add a "Twin Headed Behemoth" effect to the card allowing it to come back under your control. Mystical Knight and Winged Sage add a "Sword of Deep-Seated" effect that returns it to the top of the deck. In those cases they would be considered "on the way to the GY" and taking a detour. That seems to be the logic that those creatures "interrupt" the trip to the GY with another effect. Rope Of Life states the card must already be in the GY for its effect to resolve. However if someone chains Disappear to your Rope, you're in BIG trouble. NO hand and no mon.

 

[ArmosaDrako]

Red-Moon Baby and Mystical Knight of Jackal apply an effect to the monster they destroy that brings them back from the graveyard when they destroy them.  Rope of Life appears to be activated when the monster is sent to the graveyard so the question would be, is the monster targeted by Rope of Life in the graveyard when you activate Rope or is it on its way to the graveyard.  If the monster is already in the grave then Necrovalley would negate it if it is still on its way then it should be able to come back.

Right, Red-Moon and Ghost Knight add a "Twin Headed Behemoth" effect to the card allowing it to come back under your control.  Mystical Knight and Winged Sage add a "Sword of Deep-Seated" effect that returns it to the top of the deck.  In those cases they would be considered "on the way to the GY" and taking a detour. That seems to be the logic that those creatures "interrupt" the trip to the GY with another effect.  Rope Of Life states the card must already be in the GY for its effect to resolve. However if someone chains Disappear to your Rope, you're in BIG trouble. NO hand and no mon.

rope of life: This card can only be activated by discarding your entire hand when 1 of your own monsters is sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle. Special Summon the monster just sent to the Graveyard to the field in face-up Attack or Defense Position and increase its ATK by 800 points.

red moon baby: You can Special Summon to your side of the field a monster destroyed and sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle by this card at the end of the Battlle Phase.

Rope Of Life states the card must already be in the GY

now where does this say on rope of life?
this is my point though to your argument...same text....sent to the graveyard...so it would also be bypassing the GY.

Now don't get me wrong...i'm not an idiot and i'm not arguing just for the sake of it...i think i bring up a valid argument...no?

 

[Dlanaan]

Right, Red-Moon and Ghost Knight add a "Twin Headed Behemoth" effect to the card allowing it to come back under your control.  Mystical Knight and Winged Sage add a "Sword of Deep-Seated" effect that returns it to the top of the deck.  In those cases they would be considered "on the way to the GY" and taking a detour. That seems to be the logic that those creatures "interrupt" the trip to the GY with another effect.  Rope Of Life states the card must already be in the GY for its effect to resolve. However if someone chains Disappear to your Rope, you're in BIG trouble. NO hand and no mon.

Both Mystical Knight and Winged Sage do not 'redirect' on the way to the Graveyard. The cards do go to the GY before being sent to the top of the deck. Both of these effects are also optional.

However, thinking about it some more, while Winged Sage and Mystical Knight of Jackal share the same trigger as Rope of Life, they are slightly different in that they originate as monster effects as opposed to choosing to activate a Trap. That *may* have an impact on the ruling since Rope of Life would need to be activated.

 

[anthonyj]

That makes sense, since you couldn't activate Rope until after the damage step was over the monster would already be in the graveyard and couldn't have the condition placed on it "on the way" like the monster effects do.

 

[ArmosaDrako]

Interesting point. I hope they rule on this soon, or clarify it. Thanks.

 

[OKShadow]

Right, Red-Moon and Ghost Knight add a "Twin Headed Behemoth" effect to the card allowing it to come back under your control.  Mystical Knight and Winged Sage add a "Sword of Deep-Seated" effect that returns it to the top of the deck.  In those cases they would be considered "on the way to the GY" and taking a detour. That seems to be the logic that those creatures "interrupt" the trip to the GY with another effect.  Rope Of Life states the card must already be in the GY for its effect to resolve. However if someone chains Disappear to your Rope, you're in BIG trouble. NO hand and no mon.

Both Mystical Knight and Winged Sage do not 'redirect' on the way to the Graveyard. The cards do go to the GY before being sent to the top of the deck. Both of these effects are also optional.

However, thinking about it some more, while Winged Sage and Mystical Knight of Jackal share the same trigger as Rope of Life, they are slightly different in that they originate as monster effects as opposed to choosing to activate a Trap. That *may* have an impact on the ruling since Rope of Life would need to be activated.

Rope of Life is activated as a result of the monster being in the graveyard, thus Necro stops it like it stops Call. Winged Sage and Mystical Knight add an optional effect to the creature that "activates in the graveyard." Same goes with Red Moon and Ghost Knight. Here's what I was getting at. It adds an effect to the card before it hits the graveyard as far as why it still works. At least that's my logic of trying to explain it. Necro stops cards from pulling cards from the GY, but does not stop cards with effects that activate in the graveyard. I guess you could say it gets a "graveyard effect token" when destroyed in battle by those cards activated when it hits the graveyard. Does that make any sense or still just as confusing as the first? HAHA

 

[ArmosaDrako]

No...Your logic is good...This helps..thanks all for your opinions and until UDE updates it in the FAQ I will rule it as you cannot use RoL when Necro is face up on the field. almer:

 

[Raijinili]

That makes sense, since you couldn't activate Rope until after the damage step was over the monster would already be in the graveyard and couldn't have the condition placed on it "on the way" like the monster effects do.

Rope of Life has to be activated in the response chain of the monster being sent to the graveyard.

According to the JERP, Rope of Life is affected by Necrovalley. Then again, according to the JERP, it stops Sword Hunter and Vampire Baby.

Then again, if you look at Sword Hunter and Vampire Baby individually, you'll see that there is a question mark next to the "ruling"

 

[anthonyj]

My point being that the Monster would already be in the graveyard before you could activate Rope so you couldn't have the condition placed on the monster "on the way" to the graveyard.