need an experienced judge for this question - targets

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Normally, if the cards text states:  "Choose 1 monster...", "Select 1 monster...", "Return 1 monster...", "Destroy 1 monster...", "Flip 1 monster...", "Tribute 1 monster on the field...", etc...  Its targeting.

If it states: "Destroy all monsters", or something similar to that, most likely it is not targeting.

A good definition for "Targeting" is the selection of a specific monster(s), spell, or trap card that will be affected by the activated cards effect.
 
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in the case of "Creature Swap" and "Last Turn", you have the choice to select 1 of the monsters on your side of the field not at activation, but during the resolution. It's not dependant upon picking something when you first play the card (and your opponent knowing what you picked). So that makes those cards non-targeting.

- A
 
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I understand what he is saying. Several times I find myself having to explain to players that Creature Swap DID NOT destroy Spirit Reaper.

Its not as easy to just toss out, "It doesnt target", and expect them to understand that it is the resolution of the effect where monsters are selected.

This is pretty much one of those, "This is the way it happens cause... Hmmmm. Because Konami says so!" Thats why its hard for even experienced players to remember when its played because its very similar to Change of Hearts effect.


Change of Heart:

Card Text
Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. Take control of the selected monster until the End Phase of this turn.


Creature Swap:

Card Text
Both players select 1 monster on their respective fields and switch control of them to each other. The battle positions of these cards cannot change during the turn this card is activated.


Without saying "Konami says so", what is the key way to explain the mechanics behind Creature Swap vs Change of Heart as far as "Targeting"?
 
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Going back to what bishop said above, because your opponent chooses to select a card with "Creature Swap" (the general rule of thumb that's right in most cases), that makes the effect of the card non-targeting. Also going by the other general rule of thumb, neither player chooses a monster during the activation of "Creature Swap".

"Change of Heart" however you do have to pick the monster so the opponent has a chance to do something (like "Ring" the monster or Compulsory it back to his hand) before "Change of Heart" resolves. Going with what you said initially, usually the targeting effects start with that "Select 1 monster" as the first sentence of the effect. Usually.

- A
 
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My point is that creature swap does not say that the monsters are chosen at resolution. My question is, is there a clear cut way to, without the help of resources, determine if a card is targeting or not based ONLY on it's text?
 
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This is Yu-Gi-Oh. There are no "clear-cut" cases.

The best you can do is follow the "rules of thumb" that were stated earlier in this thread. In the case of "Creature Swap", it says that the opponent needs to pick a monster. That means (for the most part) it is non-targeting.

- A
 
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I have also found myself with this problem.

Someone asks me, "Why is Creature Swap non-targeting?"
I reply, "You choose the monsters to be swapped during resolution, not activation."
They then say, "How do you know by looking at the card that you choose during resolution?"
I then say, "Uhh.....?"
 
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beautifulsazuka said:
I have also found myself with this problem.

Someone asks me, "Why is Creature Swap non-targeting?"
I reply, "You choose the monsters to be swapped during resolution, not activation."
They then say, "How do you know by looking at the card that you choose during resolution?"
I then say, "Uhh.....?"
Click to expand...

It has something to do with how your opponent choses a monster as well, so it must be done at resolution.

Can't remember the exact quote though.
 
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a friend of mine thats a judge once told me when i asked him.

Do i switch my Matchless general if its the only monster?

he said, "yes", i said but Matchless cant get targeted by cards, he then said he is chosen at Resolution not at the activation. at the activation the card is Choosing YOU to choose a monster to switch at resolution.

so the monsters get swaped.

I was like, hmm i gues if the card is choosing me as its target then it makes sence.

and creature swap kinda does. it first makes you and your opponent select your monsters.

so at activation of the card it doesnt automatically pick the monster, first it gives the order then resolves it. :)
 
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Well he did say "general rule of thumb"...

Hmm... "Because Konami said..." um...

It's a case by case thing. I know from playing "Power of Chaos: Joey the Passion" that when "The Shallow Grave" was activated, we both picked our monsters before given the option to chain to "The Shallow Grave" so yes, that card is considered targetting. Why is it like that and not the same for "Creature Swap"? I have no idea. Frustrating as it may be... noone will likely be able to tell you why besides the "BKSS" answer that noone wants to hear. But as players and judges, this is what we must deal with and just have to know on a case by case basis.

- A
 
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Ok, to clarify (correct if wrong):
-If player A activates a card that allows/requires player A to chose the card's target then it is considered a targeting effect
-If player A activates a card that allows/requires player A to chose the card's target then the target is chosen at activation
-If player A activates a card that allows/requires player B to chose what card player A's card affects the it is not targeting
-If player A activates a card that allows/requires player B to chose what card player A's card affects then the affected cards are chosen at resolution

-Ignoring all above rules, when any card allows/requires a player to chose a card from their grave/deck by the effect of sed card then it is considered targeting
 
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exiledforcefreak said:
-Ignoring all above rules, when any card allows/requires a player to chose a card from their grave/deck by the effect of sed card then it is considered targeting
Click to expand...

No, Gillasaurus does not target. I believe Spear Cretin doesn't either. Deck searchers choose at resolution.
 
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exiledforcefreak said:
Can we PLEASE get like a level 5 judge in here to list all the clear cut rules on how to determine if a card targets or not?!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

The highest judge certification right now is level 3.

You guys can look at bishop's post earlier in this thread to find your answer.
 
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