New Rules ?!

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1) Set does not equal Normal Summon. Torrential Tribute cannot be activated in response to a Set.

2) Set does not equal Normal Summon. Chain Disappearance cannot be activated in response to a Set.

Easy as that. If you could activate cards like this in response to a Set, and that monster is treated as having 0 ATK/0 DEF, you'd see House of Adhesive Tape and Eatgaboon being used a lot more (well, at all).

You are only allowed 1 Normal Summon/Set per turn (from the Rulebook). The two actions are obviously different if it's worded like this.
 
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daivahataka said:
Note the post by Kenjiblade (Steve) in that thread. Kevin wouldn't make ruling changes such as that public before making them known to the UDE staff.
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The people who where there played with these rules (a dutch guy told me who was there) ? And Keven was there as well (?). Why didn't he did anyting against it if it's not legal ? Maybe because he made them legal ?

I know the rules are strange
 
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Duelmaster said:
The people who where there played with these rules (a dutch guy told me who was there) ? And Keven was there as well (?). Why didn't he did anyting against it if it's not legal ? Maybe because he made them legal ?

I know the rules are strange
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According to that thread Kevin wasn't there, but they claimed to have contacted him and checked these rulings with him.
 
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im-po-ss-ib-le, imposible, cant be.

why because all you have to do is read tidal wave's effect (Torrential Tribute) and it doesnt state when opponent sets.

set and summon are 2 completly different actions.

a summon(normal or sp) is a summon(normal or sp) and a set is what leads to a FLIP summon.

notice if normal summon is normal summon and flip summon isnt normal summon.

how is it possible for a set to be = to a normal summon.
 
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It's my best guess that the following post was misinterpruted.....

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Can you use Torrential Tribute after the monsters are special summoned even if they're all put in face-down defense position?

Keep in mind, the Cyber Jar was flipped in a Main Phase and NOT in Damage Step (which would be good because then this could all be avoided)
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Answer:

It is legal to activate "Torrential Tribute" because the monsters were Special Summoned.

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Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@hotmail.com

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Keep in mind that certain cards special summon in face down def. position....Shallow Grave comes to mind.
 
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well if its like that then its understandable because its true they are being special summoned not set.

but if its just set then thats a no no, but if its trough some effect that specials summons and was out side of damage step then why not?
 
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wow, i was just at regionals in Seattle and i am dumbstruck. i cant believe Torrential Tribute was used against Face down monsters. now, is Ken the one with the red hair and the pony tail? cause the guy with the pony tail Told me that it is legal. i want to know why i was told by a judge that it was legal and when i come home and go ask other people, i am slammed and told that i am a noob and that i need to shut up. this is not right. seattle was my first shonen jump and from what i saw, i dont think i will attend another one if the judges willl be telling us a bunch of crap.
 
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Duelmaster said:
1) Torrential Tribute on set monster
2) Chain Disappearance on face-down monster.


from http://www.pojo.biz/board//threads/181547


They say Kevin confirmed the Torrential Tribute ruling.


And he hasn't tell Steve if I understand it good.
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Those are wrong. Regardless of whether or not Kevin said it (although I hope he didn't). The Japanese cards use "shoukan" (Summon) as "Face-Up Normal Summon". They use "tsuushou shoukan" (Normal Summon) as "Face-Up Normal Summon or Face-Down Normal Set). Torrential Tribute's Japanese card says "shoukan".
 
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This question was thrown into the L3 Judge's List discussion last night. While sometimes we may think a question silly, it often brings about other interesting questions. This was one such case.

In short, no, you can't use Torrential Tribute or Chain Disappearance on a set monster.

There are cases, however, where face down monsters are still recognized as having been special summoned. See the rulings Jowgen the Spiritialist for example.

As I suspected the ruling in Seattle was a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of another ruling.
 
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daivahataka said:
Kevin wouldn't make ruling changes such as that public before making them known to the UDE staff.
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Kevin is notorious for making things known the the public, with the UDE staff (volunteer or otherwise) being the absolute last people he told.
 
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hey you guys, i dont like this, but i think the judges in Seattle are right in their decision. the reason why i think this along with the judges is that the rules say it CAN be done indirectly. if you go to the UDE website and go under the basic gameplay part, you will find this under the summons part:

WHAT ARE THE THREE KINDS OF SUMMON?



As outlined on pages 24-26 of the rulebook, Summons are categorized into Normal (including Tribute and Set), Flip, and Special Summons.

The category "Normal Summon" includes a Tribute Summon. It also includes a Set, whether normal or through Tribute. You only get 1 Summon per turn from the Normal Summon category, whether it's a Summon or Set, through Tribute or not. If your Normal Summon (or Set) is negated, or if the monster is destroyed with a card like "Trap Hole", you do not get another Normal Summon (or Set) that turn.

The second category is the Flip Summon. This is when you have a face-down Defense Position monster that was Set on a previous turn, and Flip Summon it to face-up Attack Position. You can perform as many Flip Summons as you like during your turn. A Flip Summon only occurs when you "manually" change the position of a monster in this manner. Flipping a face-down Defense Position monster into face-up Attack Position using a card effect like "Stop Defense" or "Curse of Fiend" simply 'flips' the card and does not trigger a Flip Summon, so "Trap Hole", etc. cannot be used, even though a Flip Effect would be activated due to the card being flipped face-up.

The third category is the Special Summon. A Special Summon occurs when a Trap Card, Spell Card, or Effect Monster causes a monster to be Summoned to the field (examples include "Monster Reborn", "Premature Burial", "Call of the Haunted", "Cyber Jar", and "The Fiend Megacyber"). You can perform as many Special Summons per turn as you like.

Now, according to the Upper Deck Website, which is the most offical website out there for yugioh, Torrential Tribute can be played when a monster is set face down. now just because i agree with this rule, doesnt mean i believe all the rules that were made in Seattle are correct. i havent found yet where in the rules it says to treat a face-down monster before it battle is declared on it as a 0/0 attack/defense monster. This maybe is another one of the rules that was kept quiet, or it is just a rumor. As for Torrential Tribute according to UDE, it can be activated when a monster is set as of the moment. if i am wrong, then UDE SHOULD be posting at least something to clear all this mayhem up because this is probably one of the most game-breaking discoveries in rules yet.
 
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I see nothing in anything quoted or on the UDE website that would suggest that Torrential Tribute can be played when a Monster is Set. Torrential Tribute, even on the card, is specific. Just because the "Normal Summon" says that it includes a "Set" doesn't mean that Setting a card is the same as Summoning a Monster. In fact, the rulebook is quite clear on this.

Anything else is just UDE not being clear and doing the usual confusion process that happens from them not utilizing actual writers to make things clear in English rather than ridiculous in game-ese.
 
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look, i talked with the judge that has long, red hair that was in a ponie tail ( keven, i think? ) and he said that basically in America when we translate cards, we are very broad. he used the example as if an american were looking at a wall and said to another person, " look at that wall over there". a Asian person would be more specific and say, " look at that white wall over there that is by the trash can and has posters on it." I know that UDE doesnt say ANYTHING about tt. like i said, included on the website it says that a set is considered a summon. the judge told me that he thinks that in translation of Torrential Tribute, there was a screw-up and the part about setting was not included into the card. remember, how many times has the rulings of cards been changed or mis-interpeted in the past? this is not the only time that i remember where rulings have been changed cause of bad judgement. just look at all the etera on the UDE site.
 
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