New Rules ?!

[Duelmaster]

1) Torrential Tribute on set monster
2) Chain Disappearance on face-down monster.


from http://www.pojo.biz/board//threads/181547


They say Kevin confirmed the Torrential Tribute ruling.


And he hasn't tell Steve if I understand it good.

 

[bishop]

Uh, not even in Japan is a Set considered a Summon. And neither does the UDE website say that. The rulebook is clear on the matter. Why this is even under debate is nothing less than amazing to me.

Torrental Tribute deals with Summons, not Sets. And that's how it's ruled on both sides of the big pond.

 

[bishop]

In short, Kevin, or whoever he is, was incorrect. It's that simple. And I know that I'd be happy to inform him of that.

However, upon further review, I can see why one might say that a Set is considered to be a Normal Summon. But, that would both be irresponsible and incorrect. Even the bad English that UDE uses doesn't say that a Normal Summon is the same as a Normal Set. It says that the category of "Normal Summon" includes certain things. This would be a Tribute Summon and Set. And we know that a Tribute Summon and a Normal Summon are not quite the same. That's why cards are specific to say both Tribute Summon and Normal Summon in many cases.

 

[Raijinili]

Warrior King is right. It's a translation issue.

In Japan, they use "tsuushou shoukan" (Normal Summon) as the once-per-turn. They use "shoukan" (Summon) as a once-per-turn that was played face-up.

In America, they use "Normal Summon" as the face-up once-per-turn, and "Normal Summon or Set" as the broader once-per-turn.

The rule quoted from the UDE site used Japanese terminology. It was a direct translation, while the terms were not. Therein lies the conflict.

 

[OKShadow]

Simply, the way it should be if I undertand correctly:

Setting a monster from the hand is NOT a summon. (For purposes of TT)
Monsters special summoned face-down (Cyber Jar, The Shallow Grave, Morphing Jar #2, and Spear Cretin)are valid targets for Torrential Tribute. Chain Disappearance, however, is another ball of wax in my opinion on this one.

 

[bishop]

Yes. OKShadow is correct.

And, as I've said in the past, using the whole "bad translation" excuse does not hold water. Not only have you taken the thread back down into confusion and allowed someone to think they are correct (when, in fact, he/she is not), but you have not resolved anything.

1. This isn't Japan.
2. They are finally working things out to match on both sides of the pond, and, the far majority of cards have not changed at all in their rulings. (In fact, most cards have changed their wording to match the rulings, not the other way around.)

The fact of the matter is that this issue has been settled appropriately already.

Torrential Tribute does not apply to Set cards. The judge was in error and has nothing to back him up except faulty logic. I'm still not sure what is so difficult to grasp about this.