Hi im still fairly new here. What im about to say is gonna make some people mad but the truth can hurt. Why is it that the main stays for a deck now are always 2-3 cyber dragons, spirit reaper, treeborn frog thats just a few.Now magic cards prohibition,scapegoat,snatch steal.Trap cards sakaretsu armor,torrential tribute.Thats only a few but surely there are enough cards out there that people should be coming up with different decks all the time without resorting to the so called main stays of decks.There are enough cards out there to be original with any deck you make so please try going through your cards you'll be suprised at what you have totally forgotten about well thats it thats my little rave feel free to post replys keeping in mind im not picking on any one person.
Not many original decks
- Thread starter alan75
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ShadowBenny
New Member
You've got a point there alan75, but how about this, I built a Skull Servant Deck using 3 skull servant and 3 King of the skull servant! My favourite finishing move sounds something like this: "Summon my 1 star, 5000 Atk monster...Attack for game!" It's so sweet!! By the way, i like to build annoying decks!
Right now i got an idea for a new one:
at least 2 Snipe Hunters, 3 of each Ojama and Ojamagic!! It's three free cards in your hand to throw away!! I'll also run morphing Jar, Card destruction and serial spell, along with something random...i know, Chaos Necromancer, he's one of my favourites!! I'll put up the deck on deck check soon, for now feel free to look up the skull servant deck: http://www.cogonline.net/threads.19816
Right now i got an idea for a new one:
at least 2 Snipe Hunters, 3 of each Ojama and Ojamagic!! It's three free cards in your hand to throw away!! I'll also run morphing Jar, Card destruction and serial spell, along with something random...i know, Chaos Necromancer, he's one of my favourites!! I'll put up the deck on deck check soon, for now feel free to look up the skull servant deck: http://www.cogonline.net/threads.19816
And on the tournament side, 2 main deck themes you may see a lot: Demise and DDT. Neither of those run Cyber Dragons, Spirit Reapers, Treeborn Frogs etc. They have their set that they stick with. Same with the Six Samurai and the forth coming Volcanic and Gem Beast Themed decks. Now, granted, the standard Monarch build has shown to be consistant and reliable and a "safe" choice for most people but it isn't the only one around anymore.
What your describing is called Cookie Cutter or CC. And it's been an issue with players who don't care to play CC for quite some time. People like to play what works, and generally like to take the shortest route to do that. The easiest thing they can do, is copy the decks topping the top tier tournaments.
But what happens, is a mentality is created. The mentality created is that the decks that rank in these big tourneys are the ONLY decks that can top these tourneys, and that trying anything else is a waste of time. It's a mentality that creates a rift between players, sometimes even within themselves as their competitive and creative sides are at conflict with each other.
Right now, people are claiming that CC is gone, being that their are around 5 or 6 decks seeing play at the top tier tournaments, as opposed to the 1 or 2 decks we used to see all the time. I personally don't view this as the dissolution of CC, for the simple reason that copying is copying, no matter how many different things you copy. It's great, yes, to see a variety in the meta, as opposed to just facing down Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning all the time. But by no means are we seeing a renaissance of originality. People are still looking at those 6 decks and copying what they see. While there is still a wealth of discovery in the card pool that has yet to be discovered.
In order for CC to be truly dissolved, or at least, not as prevalent as it was, what we need to start seeing are players deliberately trying to avoid what they see in top tier tournaments, rather then trying to make variations on them. When more people try doing what they don't see on Metagame.com, then we'll really be looking at the demise of a mentality that effectively says "follow the leader".
But what happens, is a mentality is created. The mentality created is that the decks that rank in these big tourneys are the ONLY decks that can top these tourneys, and that trying anything else is a waste of time. It's a mentality that creates a rift between players, sometimes even within themselves as their competitive and creative sides are at conflict with each other.
Right now, people are claiming that CC is gone, being that their are around 5 or 6 decks seeing play at the top tier tournaments, as opposed to the 1 or 2 decks we used to see all the time. I personally don't view this as the dissolution of CC, for the simple reason that copying is copying, no matter how many different things you copy. It's great, yes, to see a variety in the meta, as opposed to just facing down Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning all the time. But by no means are we seeing a renaissance of originality. People are still looking at those 6 decks and copying what they see. While there is still a wealth of discovery in the card pool that has yet to be discovered.
In order for CC to be truly dissolved, or at least, not as prevalent as it was, what we need to start seeing are players deliberately trying to avoid what they see in top tier tournaments, rather then trying to make variations on them. When more people try doing what they don't see on Metagame.com, then we'll really be looking at the demise of a mentality that effectively says "follow the leader".
Suerte Rico
New Member
I hear ya, Alan75, but even the Six Samurai without the Cybers still run a form of Cybers which still supports your main argument.
You should check out some of mine and the other posters' decks in both Traditional(not for me) & Advanced formats.
You might be surprised by what you see! I'm currently running what I feel is an awesome warrior deck with some unlikely cards or tech and some Toolbox or staples for that deck type.
A sort of permanent CC for a given deck theme like: Warrior. Toolbox: The first cards that come to mind for a deck type: Warrior/Marauding Captain/Reinforcement of the Army/The Warrior Returning Alive.
These cards give Warrior decks that CC feeling, but in actuality are not.
These are just what is basically necessary to running an efficient warrior deck.
It's not the apparent toolbox/cc cards ran it's what you put with them that matters the most.
Some decks just require certain cards to function properly like: Dark World.
What comes to mind when I say that?
Goldd, Sillva, Brron, Morphing Jar, D.W. Lightning, & mostly likely D.W. Dealings, right?
Not CC. Toolbox.
Some decks can only be so original, but because they require certain things to function properly they can never be completely original, you know?
I'm all for originality, but that's because good or bad I take risks and build decks. For those who can't or won't copying is just best.
I just suppose they have no one to build with or the money to buy any cards.
:flight3
You should check out some of mine and the other posters' decks in both Traditional(not for me) & Advanced formats.
You might be surprised by what you see! I'm currently running what I feel is an awesome warrior deck with some unlikely cards or tech and some Toolbox or staples for that deck type.
A sort of permanent CC for a given deck theme like: Warrior. Toolbox: The first cards that come to mind for a deck type: Warrior/Marauding Captain/Reinforcement of the Army/The Warrior Returning Alive.
These cards give Warrior decks that CC feeling, but in actuality are not.
These are just what is basically necessary to running an efficient warrior deck.
It's not the apparent toolbox/cc cards ran it's what you put with them that matters the most.
Some decks just require certain cards to function properly like: Dark World.
What comes to mind when I say that?
Goldd, Sillva, Brron, Morphing Jar, D.W. Lightning, & mostly likely D.W. Dealings, right?
Not CC. Toolbox.
Some decks can only be so original, but because they require certain things to function properly they can never be completely original, you know?
I'm all for originality, but that's because good or bad I take risks and build decks. For those who can't or won't copying is just best.
I just suppose they have no one to build with or the money to buy any cards.
:flight3
Peps
Irish Duelist
I understand the point of view, but I'm not really agreeing with the point of view to be honest. In reality, there is no such thing as "originality". Somewhere down the line, someone else would have already tried a similar version of a deck you may have created. It is only possible to "pioneer" a decktype.
In regards to the "CC", the true meaning would be a deck that is the most commonly ran, usually as a result of it winning a major tournament. This would pretty much mean there is only one playable decktype capable of winning. There is no such deck in the current format. We've seen the likes of Monarchs, Gadgets, Bazoo Return, Six Samurai, Demise OTK, Diamond Dude Turbo, Chain Burn, Ratbox, Elemental Heros, Sacred Phoenix, Dark World, Dimensional Fissure, Magical Explosion, Monarch Gadget, and even Cyberdarks have done well at the last SJC. That's 15 decktypes, which all have done extremely well within the past few months. Can there truly be a "Cookie Cutter" when there are 15 decktypes and more that are capable of winning?
I agree that "netdecking" would be more of the problem, however, I don't think "netdecking" is immediately a bad thing. Many people use it as a learning experience, to study how a certain deck works and as a result, to generate their own personal version to suit their own personal playstyle. Copying decks directly does not work. You will not understand how the deck works and will most likely lose by doing so. Also, with more combo style decks, I wouldn't blame people for picking the best version that has proven to work. Take Demise OTK for example, if you don't use the Advanced Ritual Art, because most other Demise users use it, sure, personal preference. But it is really removing a key component. Most of the deck in fact has key components to improve the consistency of achieving a win. Therefore, being "original" with a combo deck is not really easily possible.
There have also been numerous times when I've been asked to create a decktype, say a monarch deck focused on Apprentice Magician. After designing the decklist, and providing it, I was shocked to see the next day that similar decks as the one I designed have topped a SJC. After that day, the "Spicer Monarch" deck became the most commonly played decktype. It was only pure coincedence that a similar deck did well. My point here would be while there may be similar decks, quite frequently, it is often because many players share similar ideas of how to make a certain decktype function at maximum performance. And that can still occur without previous information about the deck and with no knowledge of the current format.
As for Cyber Dragon, Spirit Reaper and Treeborn Frog. They are not staples at all. They are just decent cards that are possible to use. I don't use Spirit Reaper or Treeborn Frog at the moment since I'm running Gadgets. As for Cyber Dragon, here in Ireland, last format, a Bazoo Return had been dominating and white-washing multiple tournaments, and the interesting fact, it had no Cyber Dragons. There was simply no room for them. When it was brought to the Pharaoh's Tour Final in the United Kingdom, apparently many people where shocked not to see Cyber Dragon in it at all.
If certain cards are a common site, I wouldn't blame the people for picking those cards, I'd rather blame the limited card pool of decent cards to pick from. As been proven, with the release of Grandmaster of the Six Samurai, that one extra piece of support was more than enough to create a playable decktype. If that was not released, I doubt we would see Six Samurai doing well in tournaments at all. If in the future, there are more similar cards like Grandmaster of the Six Samurai, which are powerful, yet can't be "splashed" into multiple decks, we will see a further increase in the number of playable decktypes.
I may be contradicting myself when I agree there is a certain mentality going around. Many people do prefer to pick the decktype that has been winning. It's unfortunate but it's human nature. As long as there are prizes, this mentality will never vanquish. Usually, in more local tournaments, you'd see players running more creative or unusually decks. This is because there would not be anything major at stake, hence there is more freedom to try something new and to test it. However, if testing in such a low level tournament fails miserably after several weeks work on the deck, then it would be be wise to take that deck to a higher-ranked tournament.
As a Card of the Day writer for an Irish site, I do discover many possibilities. For example, I remember one I've written over a year ago, back when Chaos Recruiter was popular along with Chaos Return. Shining Angel didn't have a lot of targets to choose from apart from Magician of Faith and D.D. Warrior Lady. I therefore decided to try and solve that problem, and came with the idea of White Magical Hat. It was in essence, a Don Zaloog with a light attribute. However, with the extinction of Chaos now, the only deck that could run White Magical Hat would be some sort of Freed Return possibly or something else which needs Shining Angels.
Anyways, that's just some thoughts I have in relation to this subject.
ldwink
In regards to the "CC", the true meaning would be a deck that is the most commonly ran, usually as a result of it winning a major tournament. This would pretty much mean there is only one playable decktype capable of winning. There is no such deck in the current format. We've seen the likes of Monarchs, Gadgets, Bazoo Return, Six Samurai, Demise OTK, Diamond Dude Turbo, Chain Burn, Ratbox, Elemental Heros, Sacred Phoenix, Dark World, Dimensional Fissure, Magical Explosion, Monarch Gadget, and even Cyberdarks have done well at the last SJC. That's 15 decktypes, which all have done extremely well within the past few months. Can there truly be a "Cookie Cutter" when there are 15 decktypes and more that are capable of winning?
I agree that "netdecking" would be more of the problem, however, I don't think "netdecking" is immediately a bad thing. Many people use it as a learning experience, to study how a certain deck works and as a result, to generate their own personal version to suit their own personal playstyle. Copying decks directly does not work. You will not understand how the deck works and will most likely lose by doing so. Also, with more combo style decks, I wouldn't blame people for picking the best version that has proven to work. Take Demise OTK for example, if you don't use the Advanced Ritual Art, because most other Demise users use it, sure, personal preference. But it is really removing a key component. Most of the deck in fact has key components to improve the consistency of achieving a win. Therefore, being "original" with a combo deck is not really easily possible.
There have also been numerous times when I've been asked to create a decktype, say a monarch deck focused on Apprentice Magician. After designing the decklist, and providing it, I was shocked to see the next day that similar decks as the one I designed have topped a SJC. After that day, the "Spicer Monarch" deck became the most commonly played decktype. It was only pure coincedence that a similar deck did well. My point here would be while there may be similar decks, quite frequently, it is often because many players share similar ideas of how to make a certain decktype function at maximum performance. And that can still occur without previous information about the deck and with no knowledge of the current format.
As for Cyber Dragon, Spirit Reaper and Treeborn Frog. They are not staples at all. They are just decent cards that are possible to use. I don't use Spirit Reaper or Treeborn Frog at the moment since I'm running Gadgets. As for Cyber Dragon, here in Ireland, last format, a Bazoo Return had been dominating and white-washing multiple tournaments, and the interesting fact, it had no Cyber Dragons. There was simply no room for them. When it was brought to the Pharaoh's Tour Final in the United Kingdom, apparently many people where shocked not to see Cyber Dragon in it at all.
If certain cards are a common site, I wouldn't blame the people for picking those cards, I'd rather blame the limited card pool of decent cards to pick from. As been proven, with the release of Grandmaster of the Six Samurai, that one extra piece of support was more than enough to create a playable decktype. If that was not released, I doubt we would see Six Samurai doing well in tournaments at all. If in the future, there are more similar cards like Grandmaster of the Six Samurai, which are powerful, yet can't be "splashed" into multiple decks, we will see a further increase in the number of playable decktypes.
I may be contradicting myself when I agree there is a certain mentality going around. Many people do prefer to pick the decktype that has been winning. It's unfortunate but it's human nature. As long as there are prizes, this mentality will never vanquish. Usually, in more local tournaments, you'd see players running more creative or unusually decks. This is because there would not be anything major at stake, hence there is more freedom to try something new and to test it. However, if testing in such a low level tournament fails miserably after several weeks work on the deck, then it would be be wise to take that deck to a higher-ranked tournament.
As a Card of the Day writer for an Irish site, I do discover many possibilities. For example, I remember one I've written over a year ago, back when Chaos Recruiter was popular along with Chaos Return. Shining Angel didn't have a lot of targets to choose from apart from Magician of Faith and D.D. Warrior Lady. I therefore decided to try and solve that problem, and came with the idea of White Magical Hat. It was in essence, a Don Zaloog with a light attribute. However, with the extinction of Chaos now, the only deck that could run White Magical Hat would be some sort of Freed Return possibly or something else which needs Shining Angels.
Anyways, that's just some thoughts I have in relation to this subject.
ldwinkI also made a comment, "sigh, 3x cyber dragons" at another forum, after the Columbus SJC in March, (at YuGiOh Realms), and got flamed up the wazoo. Not that I think Cyber Dragon is a bad card but I wanted to see more different decks. However, one of the flamers pointed out that this years meta is a lot more different than the old Chaos Sorcerer meta and I had to agree this is more varied, since there were a number of different deck types in the top 8, even though, 6 of them ran 3x cyber dragon.
Ok, useless post. Sorry. Just felt like typing it out.
Ok, useless post. Sorry. Just felt like typing it out.
It's a shame Konami doesn't believe in erratas (other than simply rewording texts to be just slightly less confusing). Imagine how popular Cyber Dragon would be if it was a Normal Summon instead of a Special Summon.
They really only make certain cards powerful because they're in the show and they want people to be playing with cards from the show. Cyber Dragon, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude... I've always believed that the show should not influence the game. Crossovers are fine, so long as the game is treated separately and with respect.
Another useless and off-topic post here.
They really only make certain cards powerful because they're in the show and they want people to be playing with cards from the show. Cyber Dragon, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude... I've always believed that the show should not influence the game. Crossovers are fine, so long as the game is treated separately and with respect.
Another useless and off-topic post here.
SoilentG said:
granted cyberdragons are in most decks.... but 3 cards does not a deck make...
call of the haunted and premature are in most decks - but they are not called gy recurrance decks...
personally, i like the variety we now have, sure a lot of decks share cards...torrential, RofD, mirror force, exiled force, smashing ground, yet they are not labled "effect destruction" decks, with the rest of their cards being mere "tech"
cards like cyberdragon are popular because they have high utility-some decks need the special summon>tribute to function others need spcl sumon>normal summon to flood with power, yet more want light attributes to function or machine types , whether to fuse or gain synergy & utility after all there is a reason majestic mech okha is not in every deck....
if we got rid of cyberdragons, come from behind victorys would be less common, we would probably see gadgets fall by the wayside and monarchs would replace them with cards like spell striker to get their tributes on field, on the other hand - dasher would probably rise in prominance
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