Original ATK. Hey, Wait! Come back!

[Digital Jedi]

I'll keep this brief. I've been going over the Original ATK rulings and list messages, and I've come to a few conclusions. I don't think this Original ATK thing is as hard as we've been making it. I just think we've been looking at from the wrong perspective. That's not to say it's easy, or that it's not without some head scratchers. But there do appear to be some consistencies.

There are two consistencies I've found in all the Original ATK rulings. They are as follows:

1. When referencing the Original ATK of a monster for an effect that involves offering it as Tribute, you look at the monster's ATK value either while it's on it's way to the Graveyard, or while it's in it. Either way, it's the ATK value printed on the card. This is different from an effect that looks at the monster for its ATK value before the monster is offered as Tribute, like Deck Devastation Virus or Crush Card Virus.
   Original Attack/Megamorph and Tributing | Megamorph --> Great Maju Garzetthttp://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=6577#6577
   .
2. Internal Original ATK modifiers are almost as unmalleable as the ATK stat written on the card, as long as that effect is active. It's as if the text on the card where erased and rewritten as the new value for the duration of the active effect. Once that effect is gone, the Original ATK is what's printed on the card. Outside Original ATK modifiers don't work this way. They only reference the Original ATK and build/take away based on that. The original ATK remains the same at all times, unless their is an internal modifier dictating otherwise.
   Explanation of "original ATK/DEF" | Thousand-Eyes Restrict: modified ATK | Satellite Cannon vs Shrink / Megamorph

The only real inconsistency I can find doesn't center around Megamorph. It centers around another type of modifier altogether. A modifier that doesn't even alter Original ATK. Limiter Removal.

But to be completely honest, I can be sure this an inconsistency, but rather, a poor understanding of the card on my part. Because in each case of Limiter Removal, it's consistently ruled inconsistently. Makes sense? I didn't think so. I'll explain:

"Limiter Removal" + altering the original ATK | Limiter Removal, Then Megamorph
Both Dan's and Curtis' statements are in agreement with each other, in that if you activate Limiter Removal before equipping Megamorph, then Limiter's influence on the ATK is erased. Dan says that "With "Megamorph", order is everything ... Any increases to the current ATK before "Megamorph" resolves mean nothing, they are taken out of the equation. " And that's all fine and dandy, however...

Application of modifiers
In this example, it's not the nameless Equip Card or the Field Spell Card that are giving me trouble. If this is how Continuous Current ATK modifiers work, I can live with that. What bothers me so much is Rush Recklessly. To me, Rush Recklessly functions not too different from Limiter Removal. An ATK modification that expires at the end of the turn. But in these examples, even though the were activated first, Megamorph" does not take Rush Recklessly "out of the equation". In fact, it modifies the Original ATK of the monster underneath the bonus.


Maybe it's because of the intent of Limiter Removal. Maybe it's because Limiter freezes the new ATK value, and Rush just builds on top of it. I don't know, but this is the only thing I can find that really doesnt jibe with everything else.

Well, not as brief as I thought. In any case, don't shy away from the subject. Post what you think and then I'll tell you why I think your wrong. LOL

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

a "+" or "-" does not "modify" a stat.

When you add to the attack everything else is still there, the only confusion is with limiter removal that uses those pluses and minuses to modify the atk.

 

[SoilentG]

I think the issue with the Megamorph / Rush Recklessly / Limiter Removal / Continuous modifiers is Multiplication and Addition...

With multiplications, such as Limiter Removal, Megamorph's order is everything. Limiter first is bad, since Megamorph looks only at the Original ATK. Limiter second is good since it applies it's multiplication after Megamorph.

With additions, order is not important. Megamorph always goes first. Additions, subtractions go second.

That's how I'm reading it...